Help wanted to ID this skull.

[21st century pict]

ID help please
This Skull, and others have been dug up by Badger’s and found in the sand at the entrance of a the sett in the centre of a Ring Fort in a wood close to where I live, there is a extensive shell midden on the outside of the Fort mainly common periwinkle and oyster shells and potentially very old. The Fort was once on the coast but is now inland and over a mile from the sea. The skulls are also potentially very old so any help would be very helpful cheers.
.

Sorry about the image quality but when needs must and all that.
Any suggestions

 

[Adze]

It would be interesting to see that from underneath - are there signs of significant butchery by any chance? It looks sliced through.

 

[VFR800Essex]

If it's been sliced it may be a birds skull. Swan or goose? I'm just guessing.

 

[Adze]

I was thinking more of a young ovine - lamb or goat kid perhaps (going by size and the enclosed orbits meaning an adult canid or mustelid is unlikely)? Obviously the lack of dentition doesn't help much, but has it been butchered or is it just the march of time that means it's in such a poor state. Likewise, I'm guessing too.

 

[21st century pict]

I'm guessing it's a bird to and the beak has rotted away, there didn’t appear to be any damage or butchery marks to the skull, and all the other skull appear to be intact also, but I still think it has been eaten by humans, the site is possibly form 500 years old up to 15 thousand YBP or at the very oldest the Loch Lomond stadial.

 

[santaman2000]

Alas. Poor Yorik.

 

[21st century pict]

The lack of an upper palate and no top teeth may very well suggest a goat lamb or young deer, Now thats a very good point Adze.
The underlying beach sand maybe very low in acid which would also helped preserve poor Yorik for an extended period of time.

 

[Urban X]

Alas. Poor Yorik.

Nah, this is Yorick, taken by my GF at the time whilst we were exploring Law Hospital up in Lanarkshire, Scotland.

We later decided it was a female skull so re-named her Alanis Yorickette, it's the same one used as my avatar.

Si

 

[havocsdad]

The back of the skull looks a bit too rounded to be mammalian , my uneducated guess is more bird like. maybe a pheasant or the likes
http://www.skullsite.com/index.htm

 

[blacktimberwolf]

I think that's a grouse skull......can't help you with the species but if you lived in the USA I'd wager a ruffed grouse.

 

[Harvestman]

Spawn of Cthulhu.

 

[Adze]

I think that's a grouse skull......can't help you with the species but if you lived in the USA I'd wager a ruffed grouse.

Probably too large for the grouse in the UK... but if you look at this, it's almost bang on for size and they're Scottish

http://www.taxidermy.net/forum/index.php/topic,283929.msg1965360.html

 

[blacktimberwolf]

Maybe grouse were bigger back then

grouse skull.....watcha reckon ?

 

[Adze]

It's a shoe in for shape - size is all that bothers me re grouse. They're only a little bit bigger than pheasant, if at all. FWIW, a capercaillie is a big grouse... can't find an image of a skull though.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

Having problems myself finding a capercaillie skull, Here's a black grouse skull

[TD="class: smalltextTD, width: 35%"]Length:[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 66 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Length cranium:[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 35 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Width (cranium):[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 32 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Height (cranium):[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 23 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Length bill:[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 31 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Skull ratio: (Length / Length bill)[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 2.13 [/TD]

 

[Adze]

There are some post orbital ridges/flanges on both the OP's pics and the Black Grouse skull - think we could have a winner there as the sizes aren't a million miles off.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

Finally found a capercaillie skull

[TD="class: smalltextTD, colspan: 2"] Information:
male bird

[/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD, width: 35%"]Length:[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 130 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Length cranium:[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 62 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Width (cranium):[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 54 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Height (cranium):[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 32 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Length bill:[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 68 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Skull ratio: (Length / Length bill)[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 1.91 [/TD]

 

[blacktimberwolf]

I suppose ptarmigan & willow grouse would be too small as well...

ptarmigan skull..

[TD="class: smalltextTD, width: 35%"]Length:[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 52 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Length cranium:[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 31 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Width (cranium):[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 27 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Height (cranium):[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 20 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Length bill:[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 21 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Skull ratio: (Length / Length bill)[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 2.48 [/TD]

And a willow grouse skull.

[TD="class: smalltextTD, width: 35%"]Length:[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 54 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Length cranium:[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 32 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Width (cranium):[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 27 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Height (cranium):[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 21 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Length bill:[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 22 mm [/TD]

[TD="class: smalltextTD"]Skull ratio: (Length / Length bill)[/TD]
[TD="class: smalltextTD"] 2.45 [/TD]

 

[Adze]

Some scale from the OP would be a good plan. If there's any chance of some proper mug shots of the skull - dorsal plan, profile and underside - too that would be fablas!

I'm more or less convinced that you've got it right with the black grouse.