Help needed ! - FirebyFriction - Bow Drill

[loz.]

Hi All,

Been trying for nearly a week now to get even an ember with the bowdrill.

Bow is about 15 in long - with bootlace string - finding a little hard to secure a and keep tight - advice on knots ? - how to ensure not too tight to enable insert of drill ?

drill is pine ( whittled from skirting board - about 8 in long - 10 to 12 mm dia )

hearth is also pine from same old skirting board ! lol

im drilling close to edge as possble - going maybe 2 mm deep then carving out an 8th pie segment.

im drilling - getting lots of white smoke and a nice pile of darkbrown black dust in the slot.

however this seems to be cool !!! ??

when touched will just crumble and blow away - lights amost explosivly when lit with flame so i know if is combustable -

why wont it coalise ??

am i useing wrong wood ?

my drill and hearth hole both are chared

im drilling fasirly fast and getting 20 or more strokes during the smoking period - this is when my pie segmebt fills with dust

any clues guys ( and gals ) ??

Thanks

Laurence !! ( Loz )

ps - leaf piece from casteroil plant is a great lube for the drill handle thingy bit you hold - terminology not great here !

 

[pothunter]

Contact Rich59, I met him at the moot very impressed by his method and results.

 

[Simon E]

If you can hang on I might be doing a video to put on Google that will show from start to finish. Probably take a week or so.

For starters though, go to the park and get a peice of Oak or similar. Then go to a lumber yard and get a peice of Cedar

Make a new bow at least 24" long

What are you using for a bearing?

How fast is it drilling into the hearth board?

Are you varying the pressure on the spindle? If so, how are you doing it?

Here is a good way to keep the string tight.

Get your length of wood (green is best) and split it a couple of inches deep. At the bottom of the slpit cut a couple of notches. Put the cord through the split and then wrap excess below the slpit to stop it splitting further. The notches will stop the cord from slipping.

Now get the other end, put the bow in an upright(90deg) position and lean on it with a lot of weight, but carefully so that the bow will flex. Holding it in situ in the flexed position, put the free end of the cord into the split and bind it the same as the other end. When the cord gets a little loose because of use, all you need is to flex the bow in the same manner and give the cord a half wrap into the split to tighten it up. The wraps below the split will stop the end from breaking.

 

[loz.]

If you can hang on I might be doing a video to put on Google that will show from start to finish. Probably take a week or so.


For starters though, go to the park and get a peice of Oak or similar. Then go to a lumber yard and get a peice of Cedar
Make a new bow at least 24" long
What are you using for a bearing?
How fast is it drilling into the hearth board?
Are you varying the pressure on the spindle? If so, how are you doing it?
Here is a good way to keep the string tight.

Hi,

Would appreciate a video if you have time !

Re the rest - So I assume my pine spindle and hearth are not the right materials, my bow is too short !

Im also using a peice of pine for a bearing, lubricated with casteroil plant leaves.

Its drilling real fast - its a perfect drill if not a perfect drill for friction fires !

Im having to vary pressure to ensure the spindle doesnt stick - and over the week ive been able to ensure i can vary pressure - but not effect smoke or dust production.

Thing is though - the dust is cool

maybe im not getting enough speed due to length of my bow

 

[rich59]

Contact Rich59, I met him at the moot very impressed by his method and results.

Hi Pothunter,
Thanks for the reference! I am just your common or garden bushcrafter who mucks about down at the shed when I get the chance and rarely get out of town.

Hi Loz, great to see you are getting into friction fire. Skirting board you say. If it is old it might be a hard wood and not pine?

In principle the bow drill can make a coal from a very wide range of materials, so I would not rush to throw out what you have. And you have achieved a lot in a week!! It took me months to get a first coal.

I know you are asking about how to tie and how to tension. Indeed these are challenges. To have got the smoke and dust you have got shows you are doing pretty well.

If you are having problems with tensioning then try the following - Secure the top end of the drill any way you like. Make a notch in the hand held end of the bow, either by splitting and then binding (as per Simon) or by sawing. Then pass the cord round the notch and roughly tie off directly onto bow handle. You will then have 2 loops of cord - one the full length of the bow, and the other just an inch or sow back from the hand end to the knot. Into the back loop insert a piece of wood. This can be twisted after you have inserted your drill spindle to tension the bow to any desired tension.

But, these issues are just the supportive stages. You are well into the issues of the smoke and the dust. You are doing really well. You will get a coal when you get the right sort of dust collecting fast enough and in the best way.

Check out your dust at your next attempt. It should be like powder, and soft like talc. If it is at all fibrous or gritty then it is much harder to make it coalesce to a coal. Also, look at how the pile of dust relates to the lip of the depression you are drilling into. The first dust will fall to the bottom and build a pile. The dust that moves sideways onto the top of the pile without falling at all is the dust most likely to start the coal, and that dust must collect quickly so that it has enough heat. So, your technique needs to allow this to happen.

You have wittled your spindle. Fine, but make sure that the drill tip first few centimetres are really smooth. You might want to sand it to remove all irregularities. Also, check that the drill cone is perfectly shaped and spins on the centre of the drill. This is all important to remove all vibration/ squeaks. Any vibration will scatter the fine dust so only the coarse stuff collects.

If you have a drill and hearth that make a beautiful match with no vibration then your drilling will feel really smooth and you will get to smoking point with ease. At this point slow down and ease off the pressure. Find a technique that gets a trickle of smoke with minimal pressure and a pace of drilling you can maintain. The pressure issue is important as the harder you press the more gritty or fibrous will be the dust you collect. So, hold it at this smoking point for a little while as the notch is filling up and all the wood is heating through and drying out.

When you think you are ready then start drilling faster, trying to keep the pressure light. You are aiming for a sausage of fine dust to slide out of the depression onto the top of the heap in the notch. At this point give it all you have got before stopping and inspecting your results.

Keep us posted.

 

[Simon E]

So I assume my pine spindle and hearth are not the right materials, my bow is too short !

No, not really I have seen a bow about 6 inches in the past, but for a beginner its best to make like as easy as possible, ergo the material suggestions and bow length.

Im having to vary pressure to ensure the spindle doesnt stick

Are you getting any squeeking sounds? If so the material is full of resin and is a very poor choice for either a board or spindle.

You will find a plethora of ways to do fire by friction. I guess I was lucky, I got a coal my first try and since then I have tweeked it to be not only fool proof but fast to get going.

It sounds to me like you are not getting enough friction from pressure and thus not enough heat to get a coal. A longer bow would give you more revolutions per stroke, so you will be less tired. A longer bow is a little more forgiving too as it will flex more.

Your spindle should be around thumb thickness, the fire board should be about 12mm (.5 inch) thick, the widest part of the notch about 4mm. Too much and the hot bits spread out too much and cool off, not wide enough and you dont get sufficient volume of char dust.

Try this assuming you have all the bits already made

1 Sharpen your spindle to a sharp point with 4 sides like a pyramid.
2 Carve your fire board down to about 12mm
3 Place the spindle onto the board so that the outside of the spidle is flush with the side of the fire board and press to make an indentation
4 Dig a little starter hole with your knife in the indentation you made with the spinfle point (and I mean very shallow, make it look like an airgun pellet hit it when it was almost out of power)
5 carve a V from the side so that the apex ends about the middle of the indentation, remember the widest point needs to be about 3-4mm
6 clean and lube the end of the spindle that is going into the bearing and lube the bearing itself.
7 place your tinder directly under the hearth board and make sure you can postion yourself so that you ensure that nothing skids around (no point moving the ember from one place to the tinder, let it form where you actually want it.

Now, if you have done all this right (and you should have its not very hard) you should be able to burn a hole and make an ember without futzing about with the burn in process. The squares on the side and sufficient pressure with readlily cut into the board (this is why the spindle is usually of a harder material than the fire board) By the time the flats have worn off and its lost its cutting capabilities it will be in deep enough not to slip out anyway.

Loads of pressure in the first stage until you are almost choking on smoke (10-30 seconds usually) then an additional 10-15 seconds of lighter pressure but increaded bow speed (so a toal of 30-60 seconds) and you should have a coal. When you get a coal there will be a very subtle change is scent, stop bowing and with exagerated care remove the spindle. Waft the ember with the palm of your hand and then wait about 10 seconds to let it establish itself. Then and only then remove the fire board. Wrap it up in the tinder it was placed on and waft it or better still make a Windmill impression. Then hold it above your eyes so that the smoke will not geat breathed in and blow it into a live flame. Easy peasy lemon squeezy


5

 

[loz.]

Rich and Simon - Thanks for the very details procedures - going to attempt tonight soon as i get home from work.

I get the feeling im bowing too slowley and allowing the dust to cool.

Also my carved V is probably more than 3-4 mm - ill reduce this.


I'll post the results tomorrow ! ( i'll also try and get hold of some pics and put them up )


Thanks again.

Loz

 

[Simon E]

Best of er.. Irish with it

I though I had done well with Plethora, Rich trumped me though with coalesce Smarty pants

 

[Monkey]

Hi,
My first few attempts were with Pine, and I had the same problem. It did teach me the technique, but no ember.
I was advised to try different woods, and have now achieved fire with Silver birch (used the same bit for the hearth and drill) hazel and willow and sycamore.
Sycamore was the best for me.
I found that with the right wood, it is much, much easier than I thought and i'd give Pine a wide berth if I were you.
Now I have got it weighed off, i have been trying mixing different woods for the drill and hearth, but so far the best results have been by using the same bit of wood for both.
I might try Pine now that I know what to expect, and see how it goes.
Just keep going and you'll get there. It took me a month or so, of trying/modifying something and trying again before I got there.
good lucK, and don't give up!

 

[rich59]

Best of er.. Irish with it

I though I had done well with Plethora, Rich trumped me though with coalesce Smarty pants

I do not keep smarties in any such place. Hmm, coalesce to form a coal? I see what you mean.

If your skirting board is pine then it is indeed likely that a better drill could be found. But I routinely use pine for the hearth board.

 

[Simon E]

Looks like he has succumbed to the Guinness fairies, I know that in the evening the Rum and orange juice fairies temp me to sloth and idle thought

*Come on man! Lets be having you!



*Must be said with a Sergeant Maj voice from 'It aint half hot mum'

 

[rich59]

I thought I would try practicing what I preach today. I took a piece of pine board, about 2cm thick and cut and whittled a piece into a drill while using the rest as a hearthboard.

I had no problem out of the ordinary (getting the bearing block to work well, drill flipping out, tensioning, no fire until the notch filled up, squeeks and vibrations coming and going - the usual stuff) and got 3 -4 coals.

I would say however that there are easier woods. You can get away with mediocre technique on some other woods. It did not work unless I was strict with the principle of getting a smooth running drill giving a sausage of hot, and very fine material coming out at a good rate, sideways onto the rest of the heap, and plenty of it. And that can often only be achieved after a minute or two of steady drilling to get a full notch. You can only do that if you have developed a smooth, easy technique that you can keep up.

I think from this experiment that pine is a bit reluctant to form a coal without a good bit of volume of hot dust. By contrast some woods like elder can form tiny coals easily.

But I must add I was careful to choose a piece of untreated pine. I wonder if skirting board is chemically treated against rot. That might cause one problems.