Help me get my pack weight down

[haptalaon]

Back from the woods, but had a lousy night - the weight but also the bulk, and the faff of it all. The big rucksack is wholly filled with the sleeping bag, which I can't get packed down much further. & this is before I add any food or a pan to cook it in. I can't work out where to make savings. I think the weight would be less of a bother if it was better-distributed.

It's 10.2kg of stuff i can measure, but i've not weighed the entire pack on a scales. Google tells me I should be aiming for 9 - 13.6kg. Apparently, military people carry up to 45kg but the context for the article i learned this from was veterans with back pain issues so I'd like to stay under that threshold.

Use-case:
More wild camping than hiking any real distance - building up to living in the woods for a few days. Mostly chilling, doing camp crafts, building lil shelters, watching the world. None of it very far from civilisation or in extreme weather situations.

My current plan is to sort it into two bags, rope one bag up a tree, have a daysack for wandering with till I find a nice camp, and then schlep the sleep stuff up there. Like establishing a series of base camps. Probably incorporating walking in and out of town for refils of water and food/disposing of litter. But I'd like to do some wandering about & feeling like a rugged man of the wilds. And there's also some small risk (tho only to property) of leaving half my setup unattended for much of the day. Ideally, I'd just like to carry what I need.

• What should I cut?
• Any recommendations for things to get instead?
• Any light recommendations to meet the things I want to add to the kit?
• Anything I can swap out for something more multi-purpose?

Give me your gear wisdom please!

Currently carrying:

FOOD
- Kelly Kettle (trekker) - [0.47kg]
- 1.2liters of water in 2 flasks [1.198kg + flasks from supermarket]

SLEEPING
- Salamander OEX hooped bivi [1.24 kg]
- inflatable sleeping mat (eurohike - cheap, but doesn't feel heavy)
- reflective aluminium mat (reclaimed food packaging - weightless)
- wool roll mat
- Fesca/british army sleep system [4 or 4.5kg]
[light: 2-2.2kg; winter: 2-2.2kg]

SHELTER
- OEX bush tarp [0.55kg]
- cord
- rope
- tent pegs

CARRY
- one big rucksack (lichfield explorer 70+ - 80liters)[2.24 kg]
- one small rucksack
- everything is rolled & bound with cord, no stuff sacks

GENERAL
- camp lantern
- head torch
- oppinel knife
- hiking stave
- small first aid kit
- small sewing kit
- firestarting kit
- 2x empty bag-for-life
- notepad & pen
- poop kit (loo roll/hand san/poo bags)
- phone

CLOTHES
- wool blanket
- poncho
- hat
- snood

Things I'd like to add to my setup:
- hygiene
- change of clothes/pajamas
- food
- multi-purpose cooking container/cup/pan
- mini axe or a roll of pre-prepped wood
- book
- hammock (for relaxing at camp)

Kit thoughts:
- Not loving the hooped bivi. it's claustrophobic & hard to get comfy in, & tricky to balance all the sleeping bags and layers of mat. and like the worst of both worlds between a bivi bag and an actual tent. I feel like for the same weight, I can probably get a pricy tent that's a little more generously sized. It's a lifesaver for midges over a bag-type-bag, but it's just no fun to curl up in with a book.

- I'm also not loving the kettle. It takes up space & is wobbly to operate (you definitely can't put the pot-rest on top of the kettle with a pot on it safely). The space is very small to make a good enough fire for cooking on. i can now make a decent coffee, but 2-minute-tortellini eludes me - and that's sat at home with pre-prepped wood. In general, too, there's some obvious ethical issues about wild fires (even in stoves - there was a lot of spitting sparks last night) and using wood from the wild and health implications, and maybe I should just cut that aspect entirely - fire is a tricky, time-consuming, resource intensive thing. That would also cut out the spare water, wood, fire kit, and axe. But hot meals and drinks are satisfying.

- I AM enjoying my absurdly cosy arctic-rated sleeping bag, but it's so huge packed. It's not even heavy, really, just bulky & unbalanced.

- I love my freezer-bag-for-lifes, they're so great. You can sit on them, use them for carrying & gathering, you can sort things into them when rummaging for something at the bottom of a rucksack, they weigh nothing, you can use them for extra sleep insulation, you can probably carry water in them. Ridiculously useful things. And great for chucking everything into if you need to get back to the car in a hurry.

 

[Decacraft]

Water-
I carry a 1L nalgene bottle with a nesting cup to boil with
Along with a grayl geopress to filter and top up water as needed. Always try to keep the nalgene topped off.

Cookset- alcohol burner with a small hip flask of meths/jetboil clone/ folding firebox and heat mat.
Pathfinder skillet and lid
Maybe some firelighters

Sleeping- alpkit elan bivvy/ DD travel hammock/bivvy
Fold up mat
Eurohike cheap sleeping bag
DD 3x3/4x4 tarp
Cordage
Make pegs on site from branches

First aid kit and travel wipes and travel tissue pack, hand sanitiser in small pouch

Repair kit in small molle pouch- duct tape around half an old bank card, small super glue, plastic patch repair strips(bike tyre repair kit) sail needles and thread.

Sharps kit- knife, saw and hatchet/axe depending on plans, wood availability and location of camp.

Clothes I'm wearing, spare socks, base layers, t-shirt and waterproofs/smock over the rucksack.

Petzl headlamp with rechargeable battery, olight torch and powerbank

Food+ brewkit preplanned and in stuffsack

All of this normally fits in a 35l pack (expanded) and a haversack and can make it last for 3 days.

I think its probably sub 10kg but don't have a scales to weigh my setup, but its manageable for a few km.

Your sleep system could be lighter, and I usually only use a Kelly kettle from a car camp where I can make multiple trips to lug gear

 

[Broch]

Firstly, there is no one kit list for all activities in all seasons. For fair weather (i.e. not sub-zero) backpacking my kit will be around the 12kg mark - for winter it will be nearer 18 and possibly higher.

The first thing I will work out is am I 'journeying' or am I static camping and day-wandering from there? Again, a huge difference in kit list. I never carry an axe or expect to light a fire when backpacking. I hate Kelly Kettles - too cumbersome, relatively heavy and not as versatile (@Pattree will be on in a minute to disagree with me though ). So, for backpacking it's an MSR multifuel - will boil at 2000 feet in sub-zero.

For summer, I use a cheap 3 season Mountain Warehouse Microlite 500 sleeping bag, weighs next to nothing and packs very small; in winter it's Snugpack Softie 12, bigger and heavier. In summer I'm under a DD tarp, in winter in my Saunders Space Packer tent .... etc.

If you've got a garden, or nearby camping, experiment with less - it can be enlightening but sometimes uncomfortable; it won't kill you.

 

[TeeDee]

Firstly, there is no one kit list for all activities in all seasons. For fair weather (i.e. not sub-zero) backpacking my kit will be around the 12kg mark - for winter it will be nearer 18 and possibly higher.

The first thing I will work out is am I 'journeying' or am I static camping and day-wandering from there? Again, a huge difference in kit list. I never carry an axe or expect to light a fire when backpacking. I hate Kelly Kettles - too cumbersome, relatively heavy and not as versatile (@Pattree will be on in a minute to disagree with me though ). So, for backpacking it's an MSR multifuel - will boil at 2000 feet in sub-zero.

For summer, I use a cheap 3 season Mountain Warehouse Microlite 500 sleeping bag, weighs next to nothing and packs very small; in winter it's Snugpack Softie 12, bigger and heavier. In summer I'm under a DD tarp, in winter in my Saunders Space Packer tent .... etc.

If you've got a garden, or nearby camping, experiment with less - it can be enlightening but sometimes uncomfortable; it won't kill you.

The route to Survivor Bias experimentation.

 

[TLM]

I see nothing excessive but a lot of things depend on personal preference. KK takes some room and is not necessarily very handy when walking, small alcohol burner or small gas burner would serve better in most cases.

I don't think winter sleeping bag is generally needed in the UK, a good 3 season one would weight less and take a lot less space. While I agree that sleeping well is one of the pleasures of life it looks like your sleeping system does take a lot of space.

When I did my last Lapland summer trek of 5 days my pack was 23 kg, without water but with 2 days spare food and some cold weather clothing just in case.

I am just in the process of shaving off 4-5 kg and I don't think I have much trouble there.

 

[Broch]

I don't think winter sleeping bag is generally needed in the UK, a good 3 season one would weight less and take a lot less space. While I agree that sleeping well is one of the pleasures of life it looks like your sleeping system does take a lot of space.

And that is the mistake a lot of people make; our wet cold winters are much harder to live with than sub-zero dry. And even we can get -15 or even -20 on relatively lowly slopes - I've been on the Glyders at only 1000m in -20 and glad to have a good sleeping bag!

However, few people do that and, you're right, most outdoor pursuits can be done with a 3 season bag if you stay in the lowlands - but that's true of a great deal of the world

 

[TLM]

And that is the mistake a lot of people make; our wet cold winters are much harder to live with than sub-zero dry. And even we can get -15 or even -20 on relatively lowly slopes - I've been on the Glyders at only 1000m in -20 and glad to have a good sleeping bag!

If you read carefully you'll notice I did not make the mistake. I have been in enough wet colds to know that. Do remember my first night in -35C and I was not sure how it would go, survived and even slept some. Military here uses heated tents mostly and they just have 3 season bags, the slightly more special troops have bivvies and arctic bags for winter.

 

[Billy-o]

Getting packweight down is a kind of chiselling exercise once you have got the mechanics of the trip (cooking, sleeping, first aid, waterproofing etc.) sorted out. Slightly lighter cup, slightly lighter tarp, slightly lighter sleeping bag, less water and so on. More of a mind-set than a set of followable instructions, if you see what I mean.

Often, one can start with the pack itself. But, beware as lightness might mean surrendering stability for heavier loads. Arcteryx light packs are absolutely great, for example, but can't carry weight like say Kifaru. Also, sometimes a well adjusted pack seems to make the weight kind of disappear. You are right about distribution and adjusting shoulder and waiststraps, cranking down compression straps etc.

I think some of this depends on the priority you put on distance too. It you have a 15-20 mile uphill hike in mind before being able to kip, you will definitely want to be thinking hard about what you take. A couple of miles walk in, might not make such considerations quite so pressing.

Some things, like an axe, for example are just a bad idea in nearly all circs ... unless you have a vehicle of some kind. Maybe think about down or artificial fibres instead of wool. If you have your phone, don't take the book. It's just the little decisions that add up to pounds in weight. Lighter boots make a difference; even think about wearing good grippy x-country trainers instead.

For bulky sleeping bags, Kifaru used to (might still) do a five strap stuffsack which will pack the bag more like a sausage than a football. Small innovation but kind of a lifesaver, It'll wrestle any big bag down to manageable size and the shape makes for much easier packing.

Sorry for sounding like your Uncle Billy

 

[Van-Wild]

My thoughts....

Currently carrying:[/B]

FOOD
- Kelly Kettle (trekker) - [0.47kg] Get a smaller stove.
- 1.2liters of water in 2 flasks [1.198kg + flasks from supermarket] change flasks for disposable plastic bottles.

SLEEPING
- Salamander OEX hooped bivi [1.24 kg] sell it and buy the snugpak SF bivvy.
- inflatable sleeping mat (eurohike - cheap, but doesn't feel heavy)
- reflective aluminium mat (reclaimed food packaging - weightless)
- wool roll mat - why? Leave it at home.
- Fesca/british army sleep system [4 or 4.5kg]
[light: 2-2.2kg; winter: 2-2.2kg] only take the lighter one.

SHELTER
- OEX bush tarp [0.55kg]
- cord
- rope
- tent pegs - consider making pegs when u get to camp, or just tie off yr cord to trees or heavy logs or roots.

CARRY
- one big rucksack (lichfield explorer 70+ - 80liters)[2.24 kg]
- one small rucksack
- everything is rolled & bound with cord, no stuff sacks - this will probably weigh more than putting stuff in zip lock freezer bags.

GENERAL
- camp lantern - leave at home, you have a head torch.
- head torch
- oppinel knife
- hiking stave
- small first aid kit
- small sewing kit - consider leaving at home or just carrying 1 needle and some thread.
- firestarting kit - you mean a bic lighter?
- 2x empty bag-for-life - only take one
- notepad & pen
- poop kit (loo roll/hand san/poo bags)
- phone

CLOTHES
- wool blanket - why? It's heavy. Do you own a lighter, warmer jacket?
- poncho
- hat
- snood

Things I'd like to add to my setup:
- hygiene
- change of clothes/pajamas
- food
- multi-purpose cooking container/cup/pan
- mini axe or a roll of pre-prepped wood
- book
- hammock (for relaxing at camp)

Just my thoughts, feel free to ignore. My thoughts relate purely to saving weight without consideration to activity or comfort.

 

[Chris]

It’s worth experimenting with how you pack your bag as well. Some people prefer it with heavy items loaded at the bottom, some people prefer it top heavy, some prefer it evenly spread throughout the pack.

Also, are you utilising your pack’s features fully? You want a lot of the weight held around your hips by using the waist/hip straps to keep a firm grip on you. This reduces load on your spine.

Personally I think whilst the military sleeping bags are comfy, the space they take up rules them out for anything other than short distance/duration trips. Especially at this time of year they’re way too warm and way too bulky.

45kg weights talked about in the military include radios, ammunition and other mission critical kit. Do not use military kit weight as a comparison. Their priorities are mission and firepower, not comfort. Trust me, any opportunity to drop weight there is welcomed - and maybe why you’ll find all sorts of questionable things buried under bushes throughout training areas.

 

[Ozmundo]

Like Decacraft my normal summer kit is sub 40L but I’ve never weighed it. If’s really dry & warm 18L plus z-Matt on the outside.

Cooking and water I just use military canteen and cup (0.5-0.7) for cooking. A Wildo fold a cup, spork and long spoon for packet meals. Millbank bag prefilter and puritabs or boiling. I carry about 3L water minimum but I make a LOT of tea.
I do drink unfiltered water from streams higher up.

I would get rid of the hooped bivi as you seem not to enjoy it! Personally I’ve always found them more claustrophobic than a simple “goretex body bag” as is tempting to button up in poor weather and you end up with condensation.

If you have an artic green maggot leave the wool blanket behind.

If your tarp is big enough you could pitch it as a tent using you treking staff. For any thing multi day in the same spot I use an Alpkit Tarpstar two (or one) trekking pole in the centre.
It’s tight with gear for two people but loads of space for one. If you leave the inner behind it’s a half kilo pyramid tent. Essentially a modernised lightweight zeltbahn.

“Probably not to hard”to add a zip to a tarp to get the same thing. Famous last words!

My winter bag is excessive, Lowe Alpine Saracen (120L version of the Sting) or a CFP-90 but they aren’t full, I can get most of my mates winter kit in it too if needed. They just have back systems I like and mostly use them for hauling to and from the vehicle when I am setting up a project.

The Saracen will take PLCE side pockets so they are loaded for use as a day pack: one is canteen cook set, water, a days food, tarp & a sit pad. This gets used on a yoke as a go and bimble about bag, just enough if I get stuck somewhere.
If it’s a bit grimmer out then the second pouch comes with warm clothing or patrol sleeping bag and a z-mat bungied to if I think I’ll walk back along the wrong valley in the evening!

The Glyders and Carneddeu in the winter. I’m not sure I would do some of the scrambles on my own anymore though!

 

[C_Claycomb]

My thoughts almost exactly mirror those expressed by @Van-Wild!

Don't see much point in a hooped bivi and a tarp.
Wool blanket?!? If money were not an object, you could get a quilt that doubled as something to wear, like the JacksRBetter No-Sniveller, but I would probably just go for some form of puffy jacket with synthetic insulation. Can be worn to bed. Can be worn in camp, or at stops on the trail. Try to keep it dry, and it can be the thing you change into in camp after getting wet.

 

[Minotaur]

Check out the blog three points of the compass to give you an idea of what light is.
0.45 kg for your cooking system is heavy.

 

[walker]

Travel light freeze at night, as the old saying goes.
I would ditch the Kelly kettle and NATO sleeping bag and replace them maybe with a modern bag and a lightweight trangia or small gas stove, if you like burning stuff maybe a small hobo

 

[Pattree]

Kelly Kettle and Opinel. I like your taste

Of course I’d take the KKTrekker - see avatar.
But
You can do a lot with the two nesting KK mugs and just the Trekker Hobo.
Boil andCook in the big mug, drinks in the smaller one.
That’s all I used recently for a three day trip. (Well I did have the rest of the kettle, a frying pan and a coffee maker but wasn’t carrying them and I didn’t need them).


Shown here with a universal dimensional reference.
I’d guess at 500g - about a 1lb.


I agree, you will need a Trangia for “Those difficult mornings.”
If you want a small Swedish Army fuel bottle (250ml - two and a half fills for the domestic Tranny). PM me. I’m still trying to get rid of some.

If you really want to go light then ditch the tarp and just use the bivi with a 3/4 air mat.

I’m experimenting by ditching my day sack.
My every day Caribou trousers (from local market stall) have nine pockets and a light weight “cargo vest” that is just a waist coat with big pockets provides another eight including a big one at the back.

Edited to add:
If you are going for the cup cooking option then practice before you go. You’ll see a lot of chat about cooking in a mug but if you want to do anything more than re-hydrating prepared food in a mug it needs experience.

Edited again:
An alcohol stove based system seems light until you add in the fuel you have to carry. (5 fills = 500ml = 0.5+K) That’s one of the reasons why I use the Kelly system. It uses foraged fuel And only a handful at a time - vastly less than even the smallest open fire.

Edited yet again!!!
Don’t take an axe. I use secateurs to cut and split my fuel. Quick easy and light. Not very hairy woodsman but effective. Buy them with red handles!!!!!!

 

[plastic-ninja]

There are definitely some tweaks you can make and some items you can ditch, as above, but if you’re finding your current load heavy the main culprits are probably your carry system and your packing.
You do seem to have a lot of bulky stuff. I’d look at exchanging for lighter modern fibres with often better insulation.
Find a good pack that actually fits your back, and has a sturdy hip belt to distribute the weight.
Don’t get too hung up on shaving a few grams here & there or you’ll be spending a fortune on titanium & cutting the handles off your toothbrushes!
Pack it all & shift it around in your pack until you find the best distribution.

 

[plastic-ninja]

Although the cocktail shaker & Nalgenes filled with spirits & mixers are essential!

 

[oldtimer]

Mors Kochanski: "The more you know, the less you carry."

I read somewhere that the best way to know what you are really carrying is to get on a weighing machine carrying all your kit then weigh yourself naked and calculate the difference. I reduced the weight of what I was carrying by going on a diet.

 

[Broch]

Mors Kochanski: "The more you know, the less you carry."

I read somewhere that the best way to know what you are really carrying is to get on a weighing machine carrying all your kit then weigh yourself naked and calculate the difference. I reduced the weight of what I was carrying by going on a diet.

I have often bitten my tongue when someone on the 'large side' asked how to reduce his pack weight

(no finger pointing, I have no idea how big most of you people are!)

 

[Pattree]

I might have said this before at some point.

TE White, author of The Forest written in 1908 said: when you get back from a trip make three piles of your kit.
Pile 1. Things that you used every day.
Pile 2. Things you only used occasionally.
Pile 3. Things that you didn’t use.

His advice was dump piles 2 & 3.

I would modify that:

Pile 2:
At a push, could I have used something thing from pile 1 instead of the item in pile 2. If yes then dump the item.
Could I have managed without doing whatever required an item in pile 2? If yes then dump the item.

Pile 3.
Dump everything except real emergency stuff that you hope you’ll never use but need.

Then he said:
Add back that one item that always comes with you whether it’s needed or not just because you want it with you.

Our weather isn’t very predictable but there have been times when I knew I wouldn’t need a tent for the trip.
I’ve slept with neither tent nor bivi many times.