Hello folks - Beginner bow drilling

[Glow_worm]

I had the great fortune to learn from the rather amazing Jessie Watson Brown at a festival years ago. That prompted a couple of years of collecting various spindle and hearth woods and trying all possible combinations. My favourite was a spindle tree spindle, with an ivy hearth. But only marginally better than plain old hazel!

After plenty of practice I've found making a coal to be straightforward without breaking a sweat- the difficult part is finding material to make a tinder nest, especially in woodland. Finding stuff dry enough, and enough of it, is tricky outside of dry spells in July and August. Of course, if you bring a handful of hay along, it's easy...

The other challenge is making natural cordage which lasts long enough, making a good stock of this must have been a key activity in prehistoric times.

 

[CPH]

Thank you for the advice.
I’ve tried the gripping the string thing. It improves it very slightly but doesn’t stop the drill slipping.
Right now there is no wind as I’ve been trying it indoors. It’s raining outside. Same for the putting something under it to insulate the hearth boards which I did with an insulated sitting mat when trying it outside yesterday. There was no wind in the woods yesterday.
From what everybody has told me, the only thing I can see being a problem is the cord slipping on the drill. That seems unlikely too given your approval of para cord. Which leaves only the fact that the drill is quite smooth being the problem. I have tried making two more drills while writing this morning but they are the same material, and I got the same result.
I guess perhaps I should try something other than the poplar for either the hearth, the drill or both.
I have some dead standing hazel too. Perhaps I will try again with that when I have the time.
Whatever my results it’s a fascinating thing to have a go at and I won’t give up.
Once again I’d like to offer a huge thank you to you all for the gold mine of info you’ve provided me with. I’m really glad I joined the forum.

 

[CPH]

Thank you.
Yes I intend collecting lots of different potential materials.
I have cut a piece of dead ivy of about 70mm diameter, but most of the stuff I’ve watched or read over the past few weeks seems to point towards materials that have lost their bark? Same with the hazel. I collected some lovely sized dead standing stuff, but it still had bark on. So I’ve not tried it yet. I have since collected dead standing hazel with the bark off, so will be trying that soon.
This is my tinder nest. Dried grass etc from the tips of the undergrowth, and I’ve scraped a fair bit of birch bark into it too.

https://flic.kr/p/2qDCMKQ

 

[CPH]

Sorry, I seem to have cocked up the quote thing on those last two replies. They were responses to the last two chaps who posted.

 

[HillBill]

Broch beat me to it.

I was going to recommend starter cord. It does not stretch the way Paracord does, you don't want stretch in this application. It also tends to stay rounder in cross section under load while Paracord tends to flatten, which I think is better for maintaining grip on the spindle. I was able to buy cord per metre (its pretty cheap) from https://georgebrowns.co.uk/, which is local to me. A second place cord would be a 3 or 4mm polyester (braided jacket and a core) line from a chandlery centre, but I would expect that to be more expensive than starter cord.

Every aspect of bow drill contains what I think of as bushcraft duality; knowing what is the best and most effective material or method and making the effort to use it, vs knowing how to use what you have immediately to hand, and making it work well enough. I think that when learning it is easier to try to figure out and follow the first before moving on to the second.

I find that tarred bank line works best as its none stretch and the impregnated tar coating causes it be slightly sticky, so grips the spindle better than starter cord or paracord.

This sort of thing...
Tarred bank line

 

[Toddy]

I find that tarred bank line works best as its none stretch and the impregnated tar coating causes it be slightly sticky, so grips the spindle better than starter cord or paracord.

This sort of thing...
Tarred bank line

Haven't tried that I quite fancy a shot with tarry twine...it's easy to thicken a string up into a cord too.

M

 

[HillBill]

Haven't tried that I quite fancy a shot with tarry twine...it's easy to thicken a string up into a cord too.

M

It's good for all sorts Mary. Its rot resistant and the tar is there for it to hold knots better. Its good strong stuff, very useful to have. The bushcraft store sell it cheaper, but no 36 gauge in stock.

 

[Toddy]

We have yacht chandlers in Glasgow, and they stock it
I can get lost in that place
It's overwhelmingly full of good stuff !


p.s. is this the stuff you mean ? @HillBill

Catahoula Tarred Nylon Bank Line Twine #36 | eBay

Catahoula Tarred Nylon Bank Line Twine #36 Catahoula #36 "Tarred" Nylon Bank Line Twine. Made from 100% nylon yarn, this black netcoat treated twine is resistant to abrasion, oil, gasoline, mildew, rot, marine growth and most chemicals.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Buckshot]

Consider coming to a moot.
Either the winter one next month or the summer moot.
There will be people at both who are very skilled at bowdrill and very happy to help I'm sure.
Best of luck

 

[C_Claycomb]

Regarding damp tinder. You need to look into Rich59 and his damp tinder method. If is revolutionary.

 

[Stew]

Thanks again chaps.
I have switched to para cord but got the same results. Changed to a third more string like cord and still keep getting the same results. I.e the hearth starts to smoke profusely and produce powder (And lots of it.) at which point the bow string starts slipping on the spindle. I can barely put any pressure on it at that point and seem to lose momentum.
I am wondering if my dead standing,bark off spindle is too slippery? It’s quite shiny. I have tried two or three times roughening it up by chequering it lightly with a saw, but still the same result.
If I could figure out how to post a picture on here I could show you the kit I’ve made and get some feedback. Can anyone offer any advice on how to post pics please?

I don't think so.

It's likely to just be that increase in friction from scorching and rubbing at the sides as the spindle goes deeper into the base and too much friction at the bearing block.

I find there's an, er, 'interesting' balance between the string suitably tight to not have the spindle fly off and tight enough to work. I don't tie the hand end of the string to the bow but notch the bow and wrap - easier to do little adjustments. I also tension with the forefinger and thumb pushing the string in opposite directions if needed.

I think that John's advice of slow and steady with a prgesssive increase of both is spot on. It's that bedding in and warming the wood up then go for it!

 

[CPH]

Consider coming to a moot.
Either the winter one next month or the summer moot.
There will be people at both who are very skilled at bowdrill and very happy to help I'm sure.
Best of luck

Thank you. I am interested in the “Moot”, but where can I find out what one is?
I have seen the ticket dates and prices etc, but don’t really know what a Moot is?

 

[CPH]

I don't think so.

It's likely to just be that increase in friction from scorching and rubbing at the sides as the spindle goes deeper into the base and too much friction at the bearing block.

I find there's an, er, 'interesting' balance between the string suitably tight to not have the spindle fly off and tight enough to work. I don't tie the hand end of the string to the bow but notch the bow and wrap - easier to do little adjustments. I also tension with the forefinger and thumb pushing the string in opposite directions if needed.

I think that John's advice of slow and steady with a prgesssive increase of both is spot on. It's that bedding in and warming the wood up then go for it!

Ok thank you. That’s reassuring. I think some of the problem is with n the top bearing. I thought it was running freely, but, in the absence of a limpet shell, I tried a cockle shell earlier. It was a massive improvement in the short term, but got hellishly hot. I put a welding glove on to give it a proper try but by the time it had started the hearth board smoking the cord started slipping again. It turned out that the spindle had bored a hole in the shell.
I got much closer though, as the little pile of dust was smoking even when it had fallen out of the drill hole.
I need to find a suitable shell and try again I think.

 

[Stew]

Ok thank you. That’s reassuring. I think some of the problem is with n the top bearing. I thought it was running freely, but, in the absence of a limpet shell, I tried a cockle shell earlier. It was a massive improvement in the short term, but got hellishly hot. I put a welding glove on to give it a proper try but by the time it had started the hearth board smoking the cord started slipping again. It turned out that the spindle had bored a hole in the shell.
I got much closer though, as the little pile of dust was smoking even when it had fallen out of the drill hole.
I need to find a suitable shell and try again I think.

I’ve not been too keen on shells when I’ve tried them though I know some like them. I’m sure someone has said to stack two limpet shells to make it more comfortable?

My preference is a suitable rock with a divot in. They can be found on occasion.

I’m dead against using a bearing but I know some people use them. I just think it’s a step too far even though I’ll have a special rock that gets taken!

A good hard wood can work well enough too.

 

[HillBill]

We have yacht chandlers in Glasgow, and they stock it
I can get lost in that place
It's overwhelmingly full of good stuff !


p.s. is this the stuff you mean ? @HillBill

Catahoula Tarred Nylon Bank Line Twine #36 | eBay

Catahoula Tarred Nylon Bank Line Twine #36 Catahoula #36 "Tarred" Nylon Bank Line Twine. Made from 100% nylon yarn, this black netcoat treated twine is resistant to abrasion, oil, gasoline, mildew, rot, marine growth and most chemicals.

www.ebay.co.uk

Yes that sort of thing. I linked to some in my first post about it thats known to be good quality, but quality can be hit and miss depending on what you get, but i've heard good things about Catahoula stuff.

I prefer braided to twisted,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Texas-Bushcraft-Tarred-Bank-Line/dp/B088QQSBHX/ref=sr_1_6?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.1nuVXo38jw3ddJ3uGy9PiHvMAeql6OzC2kCPs-L6g3G_21DegAQQXI1lmUWPmwJbdjfh22TbBvXAfsUKTo4ujlb8vdqE3HhJS7Y5Fv1xHi7CPhH66Q8ThrIL6XcLD7-LfShUYCpfzRSL0w57k3_itTnLHmnOsqSoPVMlAYjzvpjj8mljS85HRVgIousRQJEOMxYk5-R-uspKE9qRvHNkg0J018df5ZXQ6OSCPKUGvZGLXOewR7R9pKNfwj2mglM0g3R5wmE65bFa6LJeGrLhj-vrcm1eChRr70RdBKRU4Xs-NB7wIY5gkTCXF3F_TSev9WbEdBwj0pLhYb1q0JK57ycX6e9FZ3EpJJ9vOt9fz5_2bh-DRQontbqVvMKQpZzuWEGO0EOSRul2SvJp-wP8nJ8RQkI6UKw5mcrLjaLfxV46zl_vMI37cPBC2W2trbJ9.cLJ-fd2TX-dD2ivLGhVtVXp9VOyTsc6psYifxpFjsUs&dib_tag=se&keywords=bankline&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1736102622&sr=8-6&th=1

 

[C_Claycomb]

Thank you. I am interested in the “Moot”, but where can I find out what one is?
I have seen the ticket dates and prices etc, but don’t really know what a Moot is?

BushMoot

The BushMoot is the best bushcraft event, workshops, courses, camping, skills and knowledge sharing and family friendly.

www.bushmoot.com

Scroll down. Click on orange things that say "Learn More".

at 0:55 there is Rich demonstrating a version of damp tinder method. There are other videos from other Moots on Youtube if you just search Bushmoot. It it looks sandy, that was the previous site at Merthyr Mawr.

 

[haptalaon]

I've not tried bow drill yet, so I cant speak to how good these articles are, but I came across this 5 part series on 'what isn't quite right about my bow drilling' and I thought that was an interesting approach.

One useful thing I learned from Rich is that he set himself the challenge of making a fire (&I think cooking breakfast or coffee on it) in his garden every single day, hence why he got to autumn or winter and was experimenting with wet materials. I do think that's a fun and valuable approach, to figuring out the lil nuances.

 

[CPH]

Yeeeehaaaah!
Just lit my first friction fire! Same poplar spindle but with a new hazel hearth board and a hardwood top bearing.
Chuffed doesn’t do it justice!!
Thank you all for the excellent advice. You made my day!

 

[Stew]

Yeeeehaaaah!
Just lit my first friction fire! Same poplar spindle but with a new hazel hearth board and a hardwood top bearing.
Chuffed doesn’t do it justice!!
Thank you all for the excellent advice. You made my day!

It's an amazing feeling!!

Well done!

 

[Broch]

Well done; it's easy from now on (well, usually)