He had it coming..

[Falstaff]

I don't want to resurrect the thread on the iniquities of the knife crime laws, but some folk haven't got the sense they born with, or they were baiting for publicity.

MSN

Guy walks down a street in Manchester with sickle and other implements stuck in his belt, carrying a small trug with veg. Unsurprisingly the police reacted strongly, and I think quite rightly, although it's a bit worrying if they don't know what an Allotment is. This isn't a new law, its just common sense, especially in cities.

The tools he had on his belt, he said, were a Niwaki Hori Hori gardening trowel in a canvas sheath, and an Ice Bear Japanese gardener’s sickle.
When he was arrested, Rowe said, the officer pulled the trowel out of its sheath, and said: “That’s not a garden tool.”
“I said it is, because it was in the Niwaki-branded pouch that you get at garden centres,”

They kept him in for a few hours, didn't get the duty solicitor because they probably did not want to charge him, and gave him a caution. Now he suddenly finds a Caution is for life and shows up on DBA checks. If he had refused the caution they might have let him off or felt obliged to go for a prosecution, the former is more likely.

Now he wants an Apology???

 

[Herman30]

How about carrying garden tools in a bag? Would have speared him much trouble.
I absolutly do not understand why he had to carry them on the belt, like some sort of poser.

PS. I have absolutly no interest in gardening but even I know what a hori-hori is.

 

[Chris]

This is the ‘trowel’ he had on his belt:



Walking through a city with this dangling off his belt is Act of Stupidity #1.

Being too impatient to wait for the duty solicitor to come along and advise him of his reasonable excuse, and accepting a Caution was Act of Stupidity #2.

Plastering himself all over the media in light of the above gives him the Act of Stupidity hat-trick.

The police should not have given this guy a caution. They should’ve dealt with this as a verbal warning and given him some much-needed advice to not get caught out next time.

I’m not a fan of our knife laws, but given the realities of the law the guy acted foolishly. Even I as an ardent knife enthusiast, would keep that ‘trowel’ at the bottom of my bag whilst transporting it to and from the allotment. Especially so in a built up area.

 

[Herman30]

And the sickle on his belt..now there´s a ninja weapon if there ever was one.

 

[slowworm]

The lad seems to be naive but I can't see he has done anything illegal from the link. I note from the GMP spokesperson his first offence was wearing khaki! He was also arrested at home whilst trimming his hedge.

What it does show is that plenty of people don't seem to have any understanding of what are common tools to some of us, so as has been said best put them in a bag and stop wearing khaki.

 

[Falstaff]

Not quite, he was arrested in the street, his justification was that he intended to trim his hedge. As Chris said, he might have got off with a verbal warning, but for the fact that he kept arguing the point and still does. In the context of how he was carrying them, they were offensive weapons in public.
The reporting witness claimed he was wearing khaki, that's their discrimination not the police's.
He wasn't arrested for a fashion offence, but it is reasonable for the police to wonder if they were dealing with some deranged Rambo nut job intent on harm.

 

[Falstaff]

In fact, looking at the article picture, his attire and his eyes, I would have been wary aswell. What's in the trug under the obviously lethal leeks? a bomb? gun, more weapons? A grudge against a church harvest festival?

 

[Laurentius]

Took an axe to the allotment yesterday, and I was wearing camo shorts. If the police had have questioned me, I could show them the pile of wood. If I keep my tools in a bag there is no likelihood of them being seen by anybody, just common sense.

 

[Wildgoose]

In fact, looking at the article picture, his attire and his eyes, I would have been wary aswell. What's in the trug under the obviously lethal leeks? a bomb? gun, more weapons? A grudge against a church harvest festival?

PLCE belt, 58 pattern SLR stock pouch, hori hori in sheath and a sickle.

If he’s that bothered he can appeal the caution (in the UK you have to admit the offence to receive a caution) or could request the officers body cam footage. Might support his account.

I actually have the same hori tool, wasn’t my first choice but was a present. It does look quite Rambo to the uneducated

 

[TeeDee]

" Thats not mine officer!! " , " Its a plant.!!! "

 

[Herman30]

Gots to be prepared with a sickle if the triffids attack.

 

[Laurentius]

PLCE belt, 58 pattern SLR stock pouch, hori hori in sheath and a sickle.

If he’s that bothered he can appeal the caution (in the UK you have to admit the offence to receive a caution) or could request the officers body cam footage. Might support his account.

I actually have the same hori tool, wasn’t my first choice but was a present. It does look quite Rambo to the uneducated

I have just looked at the photo, the shirt looks quite hippy, but below the waist he does look a little bit tacticool. Just looked at the Hori Hori on line (I am probably a terrorist for doing that) and I would be miffed if the cops took it from me considering the price of the thing. However it does look like the Fairbairn Sykes gardening trowel doesn't it and could easily be used as an offensive weapon.

 

[demographic]

Good job he didn't have a hammer with the sickle or they would have called him a Communist.

A significant issue here as far as I see it is accepting a police caution or really taking advice from the police.
I'm not 100% convinced that they are really on the side of anyone but themselves.
After the Sarah Everardt case where they damn well knew a man in their ranks was a wrong un, high profile arrests of peaceful protesters and times when they don't enforce international arrest warrants against wanted war criminals I'm nothing like as keen on our police as I was ten years ago. They've lost a lot of my trust.

 

[Wildgoose]

I have just looked at the photo, the shirt looks quite hippy, but below the waist he does look a little bit tacticool. Just looked at the Hori Hori on line (I am probably a terrorist for doing that) and I would be miffed if the cops took it from me considering the price of the thing. However it does look like the Fairbairn Sykes gardening trowel doesn't it and could easily be used as an offensive weapon.

It’s actually a pretty thick blade/tool and curved with a measure engraved so looks far more aggressive from a far than it is in the flesh.

 

[Glow_worm]

Just over ten years ago I carried an English meadow scythe, grass hook, reap hook ('sickle') and two billhooks via train from the West Country to East Anglia, including the London Underground. Everything except the scythe handle was wrapped then tied up in my rucksack and even these days I'd happily do the same again in similar circumstances. I wouldn't draw attention to it though, that's the dfference to the case discussed here.

At the time I was employed at a museum carrying out various traditional crafts requiring the tools, and was transporting them from former home to new place of residence.

 

[forrestdweller]

PS. I have absolutly no interest in gardening but even I know what a hori-hori is.

it's a kind of (japanese) trowel, but they look like a knife. they don't have a sharp edge (some versions have a partial serration meant for cutting roots) so while you can't cut someone with it you could technically still stab them.
Japan has rather strict knife laws, too but i doubt walking around with a hori hori would get you in trouble

 

[Nice65]

I remember a similar thing in BB years ago where a guy had been arrested for carrying a Swiss Army Knife. Of course it got us all indignant and arguing in his favour but it turned out he got arsy with the policeman and started brandishing the corkscrew.

You need to know the whole story.

 

[Paul_B]

I googled the hori hori and in the address window where I typed the search the first option that came up after typing the first Hori was "hori hori knife". So if Google thinks it is a knife I can easily understand the less educated (such as nervous passerby or target pressured copper might think that too.

If it is sharp and/or could be seen as a offensive weapon you pack it away when carrying it down the street. I do not think reasonable use is enough these days.

Also coppers are generally less bent than say the 60s but I do think they are more stupid or ignorant than back in the day. Just a feeling BTW.

I also think some people are plain dumb too. I think a caution is a fair punishment for stupidity but I do think those coppers are corrupt for the way they went for a caution under those circumstances. What with not evidence of cause for offensive weapon I suspect but above all caution without representation of a solicitor is pretty poor practise and needs some form of reeducation (used to be in the form of a dressing down and perhaps metaphorical boot up the bottom from a senior officer).

So IMHO things were done totally wrong by all. Stupid guy carrying potentially offensive weapons in an easily accessible and obvious way. Police stitching him up without a solicitor. I think the caution should not have happened without representation. I also suspect he will have a hard time quashing it too. Not based on knowledge or experience just a hnch.

 

[Silverclaws2]

Regardless of what's legal a workman in his his work clothes carrying the tools of his trade, it's always better to hide away the stuff likely to cause concern from misunderstanding or mischievous eyes alike, it's just not worth the hassle

 

[TeeDee]

Don't think one can really generalise how "bent / stupid or ignorant" a group of people is in a working environment are without any sort of data , without facts, feelings don't really count.

You could say they are less Tall than back in the 60's
You could say they are less Male
You could say there are less of them