Has the bubble burst?

[Countryman]

less of the Old Old Old, you are only as old as you feel, and I feel like a 18 year old (female preferably...lol) despite my advanced years, tomorrow I will be roaming on Dartmoor, in pain no doubt, but pain is only a memory, and a good day out roaming is a memory to cherish,
There will no doubt be quite a few families walking about on Dartmoor, as the kids are off school this week, and its nice to see them out and about, even if it's only to take the dog for a walk.

I’m there on Sunday doing an NNAS Tutor Course!

They say that “Those that Can’t” (anymore because they are too fat and old) “teach”

Actually the quality of my adventures has massively improved as I’ve got older. Many of my friends of old have spread to the winds and new friends made have given me opportunities to visit other wilderness in Canada and behind the “Iron Curtain” in Czechie.

Flights have come down in price the worlds never been more available.

I’m now under no illusion though that I’m doing some of this stuff to feed an existing sense of nostalgia and to make new memories. Far from slowing down, there’s also an urgency to getting these trips in while my body holds up and my health is good. Yeah it hurts more than it did and the recovery time is longer but I can live with that.

On the upside, when it counts, my kit has got lighter, I can afford better stuff now so I’m dryer, warmer and more comfortable doing damn stupid things.

I know some of my friends think I’m nuts but some of their kids are awestruck and hopefully I’ve planted a seed of adventure in them.

As far as my cadets go, I’ve taken them outdoors and given them some skills. They will complete tasks that scared them and that they didn’t think they could do. I hope that in later life when they face really scary stuff like redundancy, divorce or parenthood this gives them a frame of reference to know they will endure.

Saddens me when they leave because it’s not for them and you know that’s because it’s easier not to iron a uniform, polish boots or otherwise risk being uncomfortable.

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[Countryman]

Don’t worry the Scouts will never know - apparently they’ve been banned from using compasses in case they hurt themselves on the sharp point! Elf and safety gorn mad I say!

It’s likely that the compasses only come later in their teaching. First comes care of maps, map symbols, 4 gig and 6 fig grids, orienting a map, features on a map, judging distance and movement speed, using handrails, catching and collecting features.

You have to bare in mind we are now teaching map use to the GPS generation. There is a load of really fundamental skills to teach before a compass ever gets involved.

Nomad you write well but you are very aggressive toward Janne. I’ve certainly never though he was a 13 year old Troll!


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[tankie]

No probably a 63 year old troll

 

[Wayland]

Well Trolls are a Scandinavian speciality aren't they?

 

[Nomad64]

Nomad you write well but you are very aggressive toward Janne. I’ve certainly never though he was a 13 year old Troll!

Harsh maybe but I don’t think entirely unfair.

I don’t know whether the UK bushcraft “scene” declining or whether this forum lost its mojo but I’m not sure it helps when just about every thread ends up with a rather patronising lecture on how Scandinavians invented the outdoors and that it is wasted on whey faced city dwelling Brits who even if they did tear themselves away from their playstations because they saw a Ray Mears programme, would find no countryside worth bothering with and wouldn’t be allowed to walk on it. I exaggerate but you get the gist.

All this from someone whose passion for the Scandinavian countryside is so great that he has spent most of his adult life living either in the UK or Caribbean where it is apparently too hot to do any outdoor activities and who despite 8k plus posts has yet to provide any pictures or other evidence of what he gets up to.

It may not be technically be trolling but it does get annoying.

Just sayin’.

 

[Countryman]

Harsh maybe but I don’t think entirely unfair.

I don’t know whether the UK bushcraft “scene” declining or whether this forum lost its mojo but I’m not sure it helps when just about every thread ends up with a rather patronising lecture on how Scandinavians invented the outdoors and that it is wasted on whey faced city dwelling Brits who even if they did tear themselves away from their playstations because they saw a Ray Mears programme, would find no countryside worth bothering with and wouldn’t be allowed to walk on it. I exaggerate but you get the gist.

All this from someone whose passion for the Scandinavian countryside is so great that he has spent most of his adult life living either in the UK or Caribbean where it is apparently too hot to do any outdoor activities and who despite 8k plus posts has yet to provide any pictures or other evidence of what he gets up to.

It may not be technically be trolling but it does get annoying.

Just sayin’.

Personality clash maybe Nomad but not worth getting worked up over. Honestly if you were sat around the campfire you would have way more in common than not.

A wise man once told me that just because someone writes to me doesn’t mean I have to respond. It’s made my life more peaceful.

I’ve long since stopped getting worked up because someone on the internet is wrong. That’s helped too.

Finally I think the forum format is in decline generally in favour of other formats such as Facebook. I bought an old boat recently as a project and set up a Facebook page called Sailing on a Shoestring. Two months later I have best part of 1000 members and it’s become quite a practical boat owning community. Honestly, this would never have happened if I’d only had the forum format to use.

That said I endured the Great British Bushcraft Facebook page for a week maybe. Ultimately the people make any community and they seem to be over burdened with twonks. The BCUK community on the other hand has a bunch of kind and sage types some of which have become real world friends.




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[Wander]

Hear hear, brother Nomad.
Have a pint on me.

 

[Stew]

Personality clash maybe Nomad but not worth getting worked up over. Honestly if you were sat around the campfire you would have way more in common than not.

A wise man once told me that just because someone writes to me doesn’t mean I have to respond. It’s made my life more peaceful.

I’ve long since stopped getting worked up because someone on the internet is wrong. That’s helped too.

Finally I think the forum format is in decline generally in favour of other formats such as Facebook. I bought an old boat recently as a project and set up a Facebook page called Sailing on a Shoestring. Two months later I have best part of 1000 members and it’s become quite a practical boat owning community. Honestly, this would never have happened if I’d only had the forum format to use.

That said I endured the Great British Bushcraft Facebook page for a week maybe. Ultimately the people make any community and they seem to be over burdened with twonks. The BCUK community on the other hand has a bunch of kind and sage types some of which have become real world friends.




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While you have a point, I also know a fair number of folk that have given up here because of being preached at / thread derailment. There are other places that work but it's kept quieter so as not to encourage membership, ironically.

 

[Countryman]

Personally, looking at my 1500 odd posts, many will be going back a few years. Rather than being put off, I’m not very active because I probably don’t feel the need for support that I did in the early years of my membership. I have a group of Bushcraft friends now and stay in touch directly.

I love the Moot, Tony and Shelly are the best. Meeting some of these people really breaks down misconceptions.

I fondly remember people saying how much younger than my Avatar I look!


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[MrEd]

less of the Old Old Old, you are only as old as you feel, and I feel like a 18 year old (female preferably...lol) despite my advanced years, tomorrow I will be roaming on Dartmoor, in pain no doubt, but pain is only a memory, and a good day out roaming is a memory to cherish,
There will no doubt be quite a few families walking about on Dartmoor, as the kids are off school this week, and its nice to see them out and about, even if it's only to take the dog for a walk.

I have 2 fused ankles and knee and back problems, I dose up on pain killers keep them going during the day and just accept that I will hurt the following day and probably not be up for much.

I still love getting out though

 

[Kepis]

While you have a point, I also know a fair number of folk that have given up here because of being preached at / thread derailment. .

Totally agree, i know of a few who no longer/rarely post for the reasons you state.

 

[Damascus]

I agree with the above, how many times you offer advice when asked, only to be corrected by the many armchair crafters who know better!

 

[Countryman]

Well I’m going to leave you villagers to gather the torches and pitchforks.

The negative waves are not appealing either guys.


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[Van-Wild]

I agree with Nomad64, we have a wonderful and varied countryside here, and access (That is pretty good by continental standards, though maybe not Scandanavian) We certainly have enough wilderness that you can get lost in for good!

We have an interesting managed landscape and history, it is not `waste` land like there is in, say, Canada. No human input. Look on the historic mapping of your county GIS (Should be on council website) and there are lots of places to explore. We archaeologists have a term `time depth` the meaning is easy, and in preservation a patch of land with that quality is desirable.

Not `some folk lived here a thousand years ago and left`. If any!

Like with the management and hedgelaying our landscape (As I said before, not waste land) has both natural and human meaning. Our long distance footpaths, both ancient (and some are very old) are laid out in respect of this. They allow the public to explore the landscape. The coastal path is based upon coastguards `beats` and inland ways often trading or pilgrims routes. People in the past did move more than a few miles beyond their birthplace! Why not go to Canterbury with Chaucer?
Or, walk the towpaths of our canals (being revamped as I write, even for commercial purposes) Heck, get a boat!

We do not need to live in the wilds....and indeed a lot of our wildlife lives in the suburbs.

I would like to hear more about the history of our footpaths and coastal paths. Or maybe you could point me in the right direction to research myself, if you would be so kind? Very interesting for me. Thank you.

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[C_Claycomb]

Its hard to say, I think that the big surge caused by TV appearances by Ray has probably tailed off quite a lot, but there is still quite a lot of interest that isn't necessarily apparent on forums or the meets we hold.

A couple of years ago I attended the Bushcraft Show up in Derbyshire and was amazed at its size, the number of high quality stands and exhibitors selling good gear, inventive gear, courses, and delivering talks, and the number of people there. I had believed that interest in bushcraft was in decline, based upon the number of forum posts and what I had heard of the Wilderness Gathering from a friend who has gone nearly every year. Based on that show, it seemed like there was still a lot of interest.

There can be little doubt that not having a regular prime BBC produced TV series promoting bushcraft will have meant fewer people are introduced to it. There really was quite a surge of interest when Ray was doing Bushcraft and Wild Food. Like any educational series though, it is hard to keep a constant momentum. You run out of new stuff to show, and while there may be new people who would be interested, say three or four years after the original airing, it is rare that series are re-run, rarer still for someone to spring for a new series that covers the same content. One sees something like this even with the great BBC natural history series presented by David Attenborough; the early series, Life on Earth and The Living Planet were like nothing before and were loaded with new information, they are still very informative, more so than many of the more recent programs. The more recent series have been shorter, and the quality of the filming has been staggering, but the breathtaking visuals cover for something of a lack of background info. That background has already been given in the many previous series, but chances are that most people now don't watch those really early series.

I do agree that access to the English/Welsh countryside is something that has probably contributed to a fall off in interest in bushcraft. There will be people who watched Ray, got all enthusiastic about going out, cutting wood, building shelters, cooking on fires, foraging and having some solitude, and were brought down with a bump when told they needed permission first. I remember lots of people asking where they could "do bushcraft" when what they meant was they wanted to camp out and have a fire in a wood.

Chris

 

[Van-Wild]

Its hard to say, I think that the big surge caused by TV appearances by Ray has probably tailed off quite a lot, but there is still quite a lot of interest that isn't necessarily apparent on forums or the meets we hold.

A couple of years ago I attended the Bushcraft Show up in Derbyshire and was amazed at its size, the number of high quality stands and exhibitors selling good gear, inventive gear, courses, and delivering talks, and the number of people there. I had believed that interest in bushcraft was in decline, based upon the number of forum posts and what I had heard of the Wilderness Gathering from a friend who has gone nearly every year. Based on that show, it seemed like there was still a lot of interest.

There can be little doubt that not having a regular prime BBC produced TV series promoting bushcraft will have meant fewer people are introduced to it. There really was quite a surge of interest when Ray was doing Bushcraft and Wild Food. Like any educational series though, it is hard to keep a constant momentum. You run out of new stuff to show, and while there may be new people who would be interested, say three or four years after the original airing, it is rare that series are re-run, rarer still for someone to spring for a new series that covers the same content. One sees something like this even with the great BBC natural history series presented by David Attenborough; the early series, Life on Earth and The Living Planet were like nothing before and were loaded with new information, they are still very informative, more so than many of the more recent programs. The more recent series have been shorter, and the quality of the filming has been staggering, but the breathtaking visuals cover for something of a lack of background info. That background has already been given in the many previous series, but chances are that most people now don't watch those really early series.

I do agree that access to the English/Welsh countryside is something that has probably contributed to a fall off in interest in bushcraft. There will be people who watched Ray, got all enthusiastic about going out, cutting wood, building shelters, cooking on fires, foraging and having some solitude, and were brought down with a bump when told they needed permission first. I remember lots of people asking where they could "do bushcraft" when what they meant was they wanted to camp out and have a fire in a wood.

Chris

It's rather weird I think. The whole 'asking for permission' I mean.... I do have permission to camp on private land in England and Wales. It was really rather easy to get permission as well. In one woodland in England I bumped into the landowner while walking through. I suppose technically I was trespassing as he asked me what I was doing. I replied 'Oh just walking about, fantastic woodland isn't it...' this led to me telling him about a buzzard kill site on the edge of his wood and about the recent windfall at the top end of his woodland being a boon of firewood for someone if they could harvest it. I gabbered on at him while not even knowing it was his woodland! Eventually he told me he was the landowner. I said 'Oh sorry.. do u want me to bugger off then?' And he said 'Oh no, you're not doing any harm' so I asked him if he would mind if I camped there once in a while. He said I could so long as I didn't trash the place. So I go there say, once every three months or so and by way of thanks I clear the windfall and repair the odd fence line if I see damage.

My point is I suppose, what stops people getting permission is actually having to speak to the landowner and ask! It's called being polite. Honest folk are happy to engage in conversation. Less honest people are not so.... and it's easier to moan about it that actually get off your bum and go speak to landowners, innit?

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[Tengu]

Van Wild, try Robert McFarlanes `The old ways`

or Wainright.

Im sure there are others; those I think of off the top of my head.

And look at your local GIS. I dont know where you are soI cant find it for you. Should be on the council website but they are not easy to access.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Access and permission; I guess it depends where you are. If you live in the countryside, or very close maybe it really isn't much of a hurdle, but I can well imagine it being very difficult for someone coming out of a big town or city.

When I moved to Hertfordshire, down from Leicestershire, I wanted to find a place to shoot my air rifle, I wanted some woodland to wander in. I did a lot of looking at maps and driving around the place trying to work out who owned what where. I think I must have knocked on 15+ doors or so and found that half of them didn't have anything to do with the wood that was next door. The other half said no because they didn't want strangers on their land, or already had shooters. From what I have read and heard, if I was serious, I needed to keep looking and knocking. People who have access often find themselves in situations where they can easily get more. Bumping into someone and having a chat has a much higher chance of success than cold calling, but the latter is all that is available for most folk when they start out.

There used to be a meet up in some woods south of Hemel Hempstead, nice wood, lots of dead wood for fires. If I remember right, that dead wood caused the end of access when the landowner became concerned about liability should something fall on someone.

Of course it is possible to get permission, plenty do have access, but if we are talking about a nationwide general tailing off in interest in bushcraft from its Ray/BBC peak I think this must be considered as a contributing factor.

The network of footpaths is fantastic, it is great to be able to get out and walk through the countryside, and it is possible to learn about plants and animals, tracking, navigation and quite a lot of other bits of bushcraft sticking to these paths and other areas of open access, but that isn't what most beginners are looking for.

 

[Van-Wild]

Walking along our paths and bridleways was the way I learnt a lot about the nature and what I could or couldn't do with it. I thoroughly recommend to anyone interested in bushcraft to take slow walk along their favorite path in every season and see how it changes. I love a good walk me.

@C_Claycomb I totally agree with your comment about urban bushcrafters. It must be incredibly difficult to access the nature. But a walk in an inner city green space in every season can give a really good insight in the nature that's around you just as much as being in the countryside I think.

I think the decline in bushcraft type activities has been in most part down to societies need for instant gratification or success. Post a picture of me using such and such a knife and getting lots of likes gives me instant gratification which, if anyone is interested comes from the release of a chemical in the brain called dopamine, which makes us feel happy. Dopamine is addictive. The more we have the more we need..... noone wants to take the time to actually learn stuff nowadays, they want to be 'liked'. A lot of learning is shallow, with no depth of knowledge in a subject. For example, you can eat blackberries. Knowing only this about blackberries is shallow learning. But, knowing what else an entire blackberry bush can be used for.... that's a deeper knowledge about blackberries that takes a lot of time to learn and maybe today's generation just ain't patient enough to take the time to learn?

*my opinion is my own and probably in conflict with yours... lol

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