Has the bubble burst?

[Toddy]

Pike has become a sporting fish here, it used to be something folks were glad to get rid of. Those wee triangular bones are a pain to remove properly, and unlike the salmon you can't eat them.

No idea on the commercial production of seedlings, I know that they sprout along every forest road though (and every garden where they're shed, I have three sprouted this Winter in one of my planters, and I'll need to find homes for them ) so it can't be that hard to get them going.

Forests here were either deciduous, and were cropped for pannage, shipbuilding (oak preferred), etc., or pine for fuel for the iron furnaces or pit props. They weren't really seen as places for much food. Hedgerows and forest edges though, and lots and lots of orchards around. Apples, pears, plums, and the like are still grown in huge variety.

M

 

[GuestD]

Here's where some of Scotland's wood used to go.

https://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/taynuilt/bonawe/index.html

http://www.speymouth.co.uk/shipbuilding-on-the-spey/

 

[Janne]

Maybe a bit off topic but what the heck.....

When I started 'rambling' in UK, the abundance of wild food was a revelation. I never found much funghi, but all the fruits!!
Blackberries, damsons, plums, apples, all self seeded. The flavor...............

Commercial fruit, even locally produced, is not so flavourful.

I never saw that much wild fruit on my walks round mainland Europe. Good growing climate in most of UK.

That is something that should also be encouraged, collecting wild foods. Rambling on footpaths.
A good intro to more hardcore bushcrafting.

The vast majority of people will think I am crazy, but do you know that most 'city dwellers' can not even walk on unpaved tracks and lanes?
I have a couple of friends like that, both in Sweden and UK. They stumble on every little obstruction. Funny to see the first times.

 

[Nomad64]

Nomad 64, Just to remind you, I lived in UK (England) for well over a decade, in fact lived there when Ray became famous to the greater audience, and ’bushcrafting’ became a household word.
I was awarded citizenship not because I applied myself, but because the local top honcho thought I deserved one.
I earned my right by work, including charity work.

You hate it when I point out what we do better in Scandinavia.....
Why? Ostrich syndrome on your behalf? Too old to think outside your comfort box?


Also, I wrote ’England’ as I know that Scotland copied the time proven Scandinavian rules.
People there can now enjoy nature as they should.
I do not know about Wales ( Snowdonia is in Wales) or the northern part of Ireland, but as far as I know you can not walk etc on all private land in England, not unless it has been designated to be open to all.
I hope you English are lucky to get those responsibilities too, and soon!

If you do not feel restricted in your enjoyment by being confined to footpaths bordered by barbed wire ( like all around Mayfield, Rotherfield, Five Ashes, Heathfield and most around Crowborough, the area I lived in) than excellent! Good for you!
Or do you mean you do not care and just trespass?
( sounds like it!)

I felt restricted. Badly. I even did help opening a semi forgotten footpath the landowner had erased and destroyed and did everything he could to hide that deed.
I did it for the likes of you, not that you would ever be grateful.....

Soooooooo.........
I think many people started with ’bushcrafting’ because it became fashionable due to massive TV over exposure. Bought the books, DVD’s Did the weekend courses, bought the ‘in’ equipment, specially if it was endorsed and branded by a TV person.

Then TV stopped more or less. Many of those new converts drifted off, pursuing the next fashionable past time. Yoga, growing beards and getting tatoos.

As there are not that many tv programmes about bushcrafting - not much ‘ new blood’ is starting with bushcraft.

@Janne, I’m guessing that after enduring the dreadful restrictions on your ability to freely roam the English countryside it must be a great relief to be able to stretch your legs properly in the great boreal forests of the Cayman Islands. I also assume that like everything else that is good in the world, the Cayman’s right to roams laws are based on the Swedish legislation!

 

[Woody girl]

@Janne, I’m guessing that after enduring the dreadful restrictions on your ability to freely roam the English countryside it must be a great relief to be able to stretch your legs properly in the great boreal forests of the Cayman Islands. I also assume that like everything else that is good in the world, the Cayman’s right to roams laws are based on the Swedish legislation!

Ting! Put your claws back in and play nicely boys!

 

[Janne]

We are extremely free to roam the beach, up to the High Water Mark.
Camping the beaches is a local tradition here on Easter weekend.
That is when the Caymanians move the household to the large tents they erect.
Fridges, cookers, you would be surprised!! All Propane fired.

To roam free in the Caymanian bush is legal, so yes, we do have some sort of freedom to do that.
Would I?
Never. Too hot, nothing to see.
Parts are so called Ironshore rock. Fossilized reef.
Will shred your boots, flip glops and feet in less than 25 meters.
I tried, ruined the trainers in about 10 meters.

We do have quite a few people that, you could say, do bushcrafty things, or oldfashined handwork.
Cool stuff.
My favourite is a character that makes cool jewelery from local Black Coral.

When I tell local people what I do up in Norway you can see in their eyes they think I am mad.

Woody Girl, no worries!

I am used to him by now. It feels good that he admires my lifestyle, sense of humor and generous personality!
The best one was when he implied I was some sort of illegal money laundering drug baron, depriving decent countries of much needed tax income, (I assume so people like him could be on benefits?)
That one was cool!

 

[Woody girl]

Yeah I saw the smiley. . Just pretending to be mom! Made me laugh . No worries.

 

[Janne]

I am thick skinned.
If I go back to the topic, I think these “wilderness shows’ do a lot of damage to the bushcraft community, same with the hounding of knife possession.
To be ’interested’ in knives - people think you att a potential slasher.
(I sensed that people felt the same when I told them I was a lifelong revolver and pistol shooter and hated the British handgun ban)

 

[Woody girl]

By wilderness shows do you mean the bear grylls shipwrecked on an island type thing? I have to agree there. I get very frustrated at them and shout at the TV. I do think that the women generaly (tho not always ) have the edge on the matcho men who start off believing they are tarzan or Robinson crusoe while the women just get on with it. I can see me getting a lot of flack for that statement but I'm talking about Joe computer programmer that has only seen his local city park and believes that to be wilderness. Not us lot!

 

[Fadcode]

Is bickering part of Bushcraft.....lol.........................well I think it should be.

If you look at the whole picture, you only have to look at the Boy Scouts, Girl Guides et al, they are not allowed to carry a knife, they are not allowed to sit down on grass, soil, when eating, I am sure they will soon lose interest when they are a little older, probably ashamed to tell their mates they were in the Scouts etc.

Schools are now very weary of taking kids out of the classroom, let alone into the woods and fields,due to the fact we are in compensation cultural society, it is a real shame kids are not allowed to use their natural imagination, social media yes, its a big strain on the life of the kids

We only think the bubble has burst because of what we see on the Forum, not a lot of input, yet quite a few new members coming on, and very few replies to their first post.

I don't think it really helps when we start sniping at each other about a topic under discussion, there are people on here who are lucky enough to be close to woods, mountains places nice to walk in, and there are people who are not, but both can be interested in Bushcraft and the associated skills, and visit the Forum to learn and pick up information that will help them.

And there are others who are sickened by the eternal sniping and basically don't bother any more visiting the Forum, but still go out camping, walking Mountaineering etc,
Most of us (I am assuming) carry out our activities on our own most of the time, and enjoy our own company, enjoy the solitude the adventure etc.
I don't think the bubble has burst, I think we are just evolving and changing to meet the changes that laws, and life throw at us.

 

[Robson Valley]

There's no common defintion for "bushcraft." Some make it into a grand competition for qualifications. Sick.
At the very best, it's obviously of regional interests and differences.

As a kid, I was taught a bunch of paleo skills so I expect a great deal of neolithic paleo influence and activity.
Here, paleo is yesterday, today and tomorrow. It's contemporary.
I know people willing to replace those things for modern horticultural interests as bush craft.

OTOH, I invite you into my shop, we set up a solid slate work bench surface
and you can bash away with rocks in the Chalcolithic and make yourself a copper knife.
No damn wonder that bronze was a driver. Copper tools are hopeless.

 

[Janne]

When I grew up, no such thing as ‘bushcraft’.
We went out to pick berries or mushrooms, to fish, to do a trip in the mountains. One day. 3 weekd. Had simple equipment, and not much of it, as we had to carry it.
Daytrip and for that a modified/extended 35 liter backpack full of crap you do not need?
Never.
A knife on belt, and the stuff you needed for the activity. Basket for berries and funghi, rod & stuff plus basket for fish.
A sandwich. A can of soda.
Toilet paper.

Overnighter - a tent, sleeping bag. One extra sandwich and maybe a choc bar.
Weeks in mountains. One change of underwear. Dry food. 25 kilos maximum.
I bought my first proper bush boots age 18 when I started officers college.


We enjoyed ourselves though!

Today people seem to drown in knives, scramas, axes, saws, fire lighting systems, gps, lamps, first aid kits, water filters, special technical clothing, footwear, a ton of crap they do not need and need a wheelbarrow to move 150 meters, and if the proverbial dung hits the fan, can not use.
Does that scare people away?
Maybe. Too complicated, too much to learn, too much money to spend.

 

[Woody girl]

It is as I've said before the monatarisation of bushcraft that is killing it. As you say Janne the amount of kit that you "need" to look the part is ridiculous . Bushcraft is a concept and you can sell concepts. It's the kit monkeys that have every bit of kit going that make me laugh. I got into the concept of bushcraft via several roads that converge into what is now accepted as bushcraft.
I did a btech in outdoor pursuits. I did living history at the peat moors centre. I am very interested in native american history and culture. I worked in woodland reclamation. I camped and travelled most of my life usually with little money and kit so I wildcamped. I love crafts and crafting. I love woodlands and the coast. I foraged since a child, and much more besides. Pull it all together and it's called bushcraft. To me it's lifestyle and has been since before it was called that. Everytime I go to wilderness gathering I have to pay a hundred pounds or more to spend 3 days in a wood on a farm. I have to take another hundred or so as I know I will be sucked in to buying something. If I want to learn certain things I have to pay a lot of money for a special class. Admitted, I don't have to buy anything and there is plenty of free stuff to watch. But how many times do I need to watch a spoon being carved or someone demonstrating a fire drill to be able to have a few minutes practice. If I want to play in a canoe or with a bow or throw an axe I gotta pay.
I do enjoy it as I meet up with people from all over the country who have become friends. I love hammock ing in the woods and cooking on an open fire with them. I love making new friends. For that alone its worth the entrance price. But each year the new shiny knives and other parifinalia are drooled over by the guys. You see them dressed identically stood in a circle stroking and showing off their new purchases with real pride. That's not bushcraft. That's consumerism. I hope I'm not offending anyone. Each to what does it for them..... and yes I have the same trousers as Mr mears (a gift) and a leather hat and I have an eighty pound knife. I got suckered in too! Ah well, I'm having fun.

 

[Robson Valley]

Bannock on sticks and fish cooked in the fire coals with clay jackets? A real food fire, too.
Want to kill ducks with your bare hands? Not a sound. BLOOOP!!! Gone !!! I know some good places.
20+ lbs Buffalo fish, one-a-minute until your arms fall off.
Fresh, they smell like they have been dead for 3 weeks in the sun.
This isn't bushcraft for most people, just what we were taught as kids.

 

[Woody girl]

Sounds great RV. I always dreamed of the log cabin in the woods. Foraging fishing and log fires with a Dutch oven full of bannock and all the other things that make up that sort of life. I know that it's not all a bed of roses and it's hard work in reality. REALLY hard work, but it beats the city and an office job any day. I'd still want my British spring time though.

 

[tankie]

I'd still want my British spring time though. I've booked it for you...…… It starts today!

 

[Nomad64]

Is bickering part of Bushcraft.....lol.........................well I think it should be.

If you look at the whole picture, you only have to look at the Boy Scouts, Girl Guides et al, they are not allowed to carry a knife, they are not allowed to sit down on grass, soil, when eating, I am sure they will soon lose interest when they are a little older, probably ashamed to tell their mates they were in the Scouts etc.

Schools are now very weary of taking kids out of the classroom, let alone into the woods and fields,due to the fact we are in compensation cultural society, it is a real shame kids are not allowed to use their natural imagination, social media yes, its a big strain on the life of the kids.

Perhaps the amount of what are now known as “alternative facts” being freely and lazily shared on this forum and other social media doesn’t help.

If you had taken just a few seconds to check the Scouts own website you would have seen their policy on knives and other sharps - which is just how it should be.

https://members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/1515/what-is-the-scout-policy-on-the-use-of-knives

Last week Janne was citing the fact that his son and friends were not in the Scouts as evidence for the fact that the youth of East Sussex had no access to the outdoors - again a quick search of the web comes up with this link and I think I read somewhere else that there are a hundred active Scout groups in that county.

https://www.eastsussexscouts.org.uk/news

Call it “bickering” or “sniping” if you like - I prefer to call it “fact checking”.

Whether or not Schools are less involved in getting kids outdoors is harder to assess. I’m not involved these days but I used to help mentor both Forest School (which IIRC is a Scandinavian import and a good one), and Outward Bound activities for kids from the some less advantaged parts of the West Midlands and these days I see plenty of DofE groups out and about doing their thing.

Sadly financial restrictions recently forced Birmingham City Council to sell off Ogwen Cottage in Snowdonia which had provided generations of Brummy kids with access to some of the best mountain walking and other activities and where I did my MLT course. On the plus side it was bought by Outward Bound so will continue the good work.

I know Janne thinks that I am constantly on his case but I am afraid that I am passionate about the outdoors and would hate to think that a patronising and/or misleading post on this forum (which aspires to be a major resource to the UK bushcrafting and outdoors community), that was left unchallenged led to someone thinking that there was nothing in the UK countryside worth getting outside for.

Anyway coffee break and rant over and I’ll tear myself away from my tablet and head out blinking into the great outdoors (or at least what passes for it round here) and head off armed with a big roll of barbed wire to restrict the right to roam of next door's cattle!

Edit It is of course Ogwen cottage in the Ogwen Valley - Ogden’s is more of a Small Faces thing!

https://www.outwardbound.org.uk/centres/ogwen-cottage/

 

[tankie]

Nomad I'm right behind you, watching your back

 

[Woody girl]

I'd still want my British spring time though. I've booked it for you...…… It starts today!

Thanks mate. It's arrived.

 

[Janne]

I think it would be a renewed interest if some new person started doing some wilderness oriented tv.
Somebody quite young, the young prople can relate to, maybe pair up with Ray.