Agreed. They are very 'look what I just bought'.
I cringe when they have something shined and new, and no idea how to use it! Not saying I'm an expert (because I'm not), but I didn't learn anything 'Bushcraft' through ordering things off Amazon...
Has the bubble burst?
- Thread starter jimbo75
- Start date
Agreed. They are very 'look what I just bought'.
I cringe when they have something shined and new, and no idea how to use it! Not saying I'm an expert (because I'm not), but I didn't learn anything 'Bushcraft' through ordering things off Amazon...
I can’t really add anything useful to the debate as to whether bushcraft (whatever that is) has peaked since I was enjoying the outdoors in a variety of ways before it became a commonly used term and hope to continue doing so if it ceases to be a “thing”.
I am however bemused by the recurring narrative from contributors who as far as I can tell have little or no direct experience to draw on that there is no countryside worth bothering with in the UK and even if there was, you wouldn’t be allowed to go there.
I’ve had the good fortune to have been able to spend a fair bit of time living, working and travelling in some truly spectacular and wild parts of the world (though sadly the attack ships were not on fire the day I was off the shoulder of Orion and the Tannhauser gate was closed!
) but back in the UK, despite respecting the rules (perhaps with the exception of where accepted local practice regarding wild camping in upland areas above the fenceline varies from the letter of the law), I certainly don’t feel unduly restricted by or feel the need to apologise for the British countryside.@Janne seems obsessed with drawing unfavourable comparisons between the UK’s right to roam rules and those in Scandinavia (which are exceptional) but as someone who has spent decades actually out enjoying what these islands have to offer from winter mountaineering in the Scottish Highlands and Snowdonia, long distance footpaths and mountain bike routes to gentle summer bimbles to a pub or two, I can honestly say I have rarely if ever felt constrained by rights of access.
@Robson Valley Instead of G00gle Earth etc. look at the 1:25000 scale Ordnance Survey maps which record in great detail not only the physical terrain but also the Public Rights of Way that crisscross privately and publically owned land in the UK. These have nothing to do with a general right to roam and are the legacy of thousands of years of human occupation of these islands and the reasons for their existence are many, varied and often fascinating but basically depending on the type of RoW the public has the right to walk, ride, or sometimes drive over privately owned land. I have a footpath and bridle path which converge on my land meaning that walkers and riders (both horse and cyclists) have the right to cross. This is not unusual and just about any holding of more than a few acres is likely to have similar rights across it.
If you want to get from A to B in the UK, the chances are you will be able to get there via this network of paths and tracks. In the more rugged areas, while the right to roam might give you the right to pick your own route across a mountain range, moorland or forest, the chances are there will be an existing footpath which either takes in the best viewpoints or follows the route taken by weary miners or farm workers to and from remote workplaces and therefore is the easiest route. But if you feel the need to exercise your right to roam by ploughing across rough terrain, natural and artificial barriers - crack on!
There are numerous “official” long distance walking routes created by linking these rights of way some are artificial but others are historic such as the Ridgeway Path which was an ancient route along which flint and other goods were carried and traded from the South Coast of England to the East. Camping, bunkhouse, bothy accommodation is easy to sort along these routes and if all else fails the occasional night in a pub like a medieval pilgrim is not the end of the world.
Personally I see the influence of man on the landscape as a plus not a minus. It would be great if the UK had some pristine wilderness but I’ll happily settle for countryside that is steeped in history and for the most part has been sensitively managed for farming for centuries if not millennia. Within less than a five mile radius of where I grew up ithere was an Iron Age hill fort, world class rock climbing and pot holing sites (admittedly neither of which are really my thing), important prehistoric sites, evidence of mineworkings dating back to Roman times and the site of a WW2 scale plan of the city of Bristol intended to be lit up at night to confuse German bombers. All of this in rolling limestone hills cut through with impressive gorges and covered with small fields divided up by ancient hedgerows and drystone walls with views over the Somerset levels with more Iron Age archaeology and associations Arthurian myths and legends including the location of the Holy Grail - unless you believe the monks in Axum, Ethiopia who also claim to have it.
This area is particularly rich in historical sites but by no means atypical of the British countryside and is as everywhere else in the UK, crisscrossed by rights of way. While I was living close to the centre of the UK’s second biggest city, I could do 20, 40 and 60 mile mountain bike rides off-road on old canals, railwaylines and forestry tracked (all Public Rights of Way), and probably see no more than a dozen other people unless there were a load of anglers out.
I’ve been back in Somerset over the last few weekends learning the traditional art of hedgelaying. Thirty plus farm lads and lasses, arborists, conservation workers and a few “civilians” mostly driving Land Rovers (proper working ones, not pimped weekend warrior wagons) turn up on a bleak hillside and set about turning an overgrown hedge into a work of art using chainsaws, axes, billhooks and saws - again all working tools not pristine treasured accessories. It’s more Jack Hargreaves than Ray Mears and no one would call it bushcraft (despite it being literally the crafting of bushes) but similar groups will be doing the same thing in other parts of the country (each region has its own style) during the winter months and regularly meet up for competitions.
Whether or not “bushcraft” is in the wane, there is a definite resurgence of interest in traditional British country crafts and skills and if anyone is struggling to find anything to chop with their shiny new GB axe, a few days hedgelaying will be an ideal opportunity.
We all have our own ideas of what bushcraft is and where we would like to do it but it is not helpful to fledgling bushcrafters in the UK if a major source of information such as this forum leaves them with the impression that unless they are in Scandinavia or Canada, they are wasting their time.
If you are genuinely passionate about the outdoors, nature and history there are enough areas of stunning and fascinating countryside including some pretty wild and wholly areas you can access to enjoy to keep you going for several lifetimes over before getting uptight about what you can’t access.
Nomad 64, Just to remind you, I lived in UK (England) for well over a decade, in fact lived there when Ray became famous to the greater audience, and ’bushcrafting’ became a household word.
I was awarded citizenship not because I applied myself, but because the local top honcho thought I deserved one.
I earned my right by work, including charity work.
You hate it when I point out what we do better in Scandinavia.....
Why? Ostrich syndrome on your behalf? Too old to think outside your comfort box?
Also, I wrote ’England’ as I know that Scotland copied the time proven Scandinavian rules.
People there can now enjoy nature as they should.
I do not know about Wales ( Snowdonia is in Wales) or the northern part of Ireland, but as far as I know you can not walk etc on all private land in England, not unless it has been designated to be open to all.
I hope you English are lucky to get those responsibilities too, and soon!
If you do not feel restricted in your enjoyment by being confined to footpaths bordered by barbed wire ( like all around Mayfield, Rotherfield, Five Ashes, Heathfield and most around Crowborough, the area I lived in) than excellent! Good for you!
Or do you mean you do not care and just trespass?
( sounds like it!)
I felt restricted. Badly. I even did help opening a semi forgotten footpath the landowner had erased and destroyed and did everything he could to hide that deed.
I did it for the likes of you, not that you would ever be grateful.....
Soooooooo.........
I think many people started with ’bushcrafting’ because it became fashionable due to massive TV over exposure. Bought the books, DVD’s Did the weekend courses, bought the ‘in’ equipment, specially if it was endorsed and branded by a TV person.
Then TV stopped more or less. Many of those new converts drifted off, pursuing the next fashionable past time. Yoga, growing beards and getting tatoos.
As there are not that many tv programmes about bushcrafting - not much ‘ new blood’ is starting with bushcraft.
I was awarded citizenship not because I applied myself, but because the local top honcho thought I deserved one.
I earned my right by work, including charity work.
You hate it when I point out what we do better in Scandinavia.....
Why? Ostrich syndrome on your behalf? Too old to think outside your comfort box?
Also, I wrote ’England’ as I know that Scotland copied the time proven Scandinavian rules.
People there can now enjoy nature as they should.
I do not know about Wales ( Snowdonia is in Wales) or the northern part of Ireland, but as far as I know you can not walk etc on all private land in England, not unless it has been designated to be open to all.
I hope you English are lucky to get those responsibilities too, and soon!
If you do not feel restricted in your enjoyment by being confined to footpaths bordered by barbed wire ( like all around Mayfield, Rotherfield, Five Ashes, Heathfield and most around Crowborough, the area I lived in) than excellent! Good for you!
Or do you mean you do not care and just trespass?
( sounds like it!)
I felt restricted. Badly. I even did help opening a semi forgotten footpath the landowner had erased and destroyed and did everything he could to hide that deed.
I did it for the likes of you, not that you would ever be grateful.....
Soooooooo.........
I think many people started with ’bushcrafting’ because it became fashionable due to massive TV over exposure. Bought the books, DVD’s Did the weekend courses, bought the ‘in’ equipment, specially if it was endorsed and branded by a TV person.
Then TV stopped more or less. Many of those new converts drifted off, pursuing the next fashionable past time. Yoga, growing beards and getting tatoos.
As there are not that many tv programmes about bushcrafting - not much ‘ new blood’ is starting with bushcraft.
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woodspirits
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Well said mate, just about where I am too
‘I don’t describe myself as a bushcrafter though, just someone who likes the outdoors’
I agree with Nomad64, we have a wonderful and varied countryside here, and access (That is pretty good by continental standards, though maybe not Scandanavian) We certainly have enough wilderness that you can get lost in for good!
We have an interesting managed landscape and history, it is not `waste` land like there is in, say, Canada. No human input. Look on the historic mapping of your county GIS (Should be on council website) and there are lots of places to explore. We archaeologists have a term `time depth` the meaning is easy, and in preservation a patch of land with that quality is desirable.
Not `some folk lived here a thousand years ago and left`. If any!
Like with the management and hedgelaying our landscape (As I said before, not waste land) has both natural and human meaning. Our long distance footpaths, both ancient (and some are very old) are laid out in respect of this. They allow the public to explore the landscape. The coastal path is based upon coastguards `beats` and inland ways often trading or pilgrims routes. People in the past did move more than a few miles beyond their birthplace! Why not go to Canterbury with Chaucer?
Or, walk the towpaths of our canals (being revamped as I write, even for commercial purposes) Heck, get a boat!
We do not need to live in the wilds....and indeed a lot of our wildlife lives in the suburbs.
We have an interesting managed landscape and history, it is not `waste` land like there is in, say, Canada. No human input. Look on the historic mapping of your county GIS (Should be on council website) and there are lots of places to explore. We archaeologists have a term `time depth` the meaning is easy, and in preservation a patch of land with that quality is desirable.
Not `some folk lived here a thousand years ago and left`. If any!
Like with the management and hedgelaying our landscape (As I said before, not waste land) has both natural and human meaning. Our long distance footpaths, both ancient (and some are very old) are laid out in respect of this. They allow the public to explore the landscape. The coastal path is based upon coastguards `beats` and inland ways often trading or pilgrims routes. People in the past did move more than a few miles beyond their birthplace! Why not go to Canterbury with Chaucer?
Or, walk the towpaths of our canals (being revamped as I write, even for commercial purposes) Heck, get a boat!
We do not need to live in the wilds....and indeed a lot of our wildlife lives in the suburbs.
Interesting. So you do not want the possibility to ’ free roaming’ as in Scotland?
The strength of the British countryside is the cultural aspects.
Another possible factor that the numbers of people interested in spending time in nature are diminishing is the growing dependency on social media.
Bushcrafting in not the only outdoor hobby that is losing people I think.
The strength of the British countryside is the cultural aspects.
Another possible factor that the numbers of people interested in spending time in nature are diminishing is the growing dependency on social media.
Bushcrafting in not the only outdoor hobby that is losing people I think.
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It is the definition of what ’bushcrafting’ is that is to wide.
For me - trekking, fishing, watching wildlife.
Carrying and using the minimum of tools.
The stuff Ray Mears learn from Lars Fält.
Others are happy to create a camp, bring a truckload of stuff and create various things.
Kochansky style.
As long as you are happy !
For me - trekking, fishing, watching wildlife.
Carrying and using the minimum of tools.
The stuff Ray Mears learn from Lars Fält.
Others are happy to create a camp, bring a truckload of stuff and create various things.
Kochansky style.
As long as you are happy !
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I don’t feel particularly hampered by the ‘access rights’ in England - not on foot anyway (4x4 yes definitely) - there are plant of places you can go that are publicallly accessible that are off the beaten track, whether it be local to me or further afield like wales, or Dartmoor - I love going up to the welsh moors etc and you can just walk and walk.
I just learned that the world ’bushcraft’ has been trademarked in 2013 by an US company, Bushcraft USA LLC.
What?
As I have limited access to the British TV channels, I have a question: When was the last tv show that was about bushcrafting in style with RM earlier programmes?
I saw a couple of his latest, but those were more like travel tourism.
What?
As I have limited access to the British TV channels, I have a question: When was the last tv show that was about bushcrafting in style with RM earlier programmes?
I saw a couple of his latest, but those were more like travel tourism.
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Hasn’t been anything like his original series for absolutely ages.
There is bear grylls (no thanks - it’s entertaining tv but not serious imo)
There is various ‘survive the island’ or shipwrecked type reality tv shows but they are cack.
Ray mears stuff is regularly on digital tv channels - freeview etc - though,
Could that be the problem with 'recruitement' of youngsters too?
TV/Media is a huge influencer.
Of course, our parents are even more so, plus if you live in the countryside you might be more interested in nature.
I saw about 20 minutes of one of the shipwrecked programmes once
Holy cr@p, it was embarrassing....
TV/Media is a huge influencer.
Of course, our parents are even more so, plus if you live in the countryside you might be more interested in nature.
I saw about 20 minutes of one of the shipwrecked programmes once
Holy cr@p, it was embarrassing....
Les Hiddens has his admirers. Blundstone boots, good choice.
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Is the question ‘has the bubble burst’ implying lower interest levels in everything ‘outdoors’?
If so, it should be mentioned that never in human history, have so many people of all ages been engaged so actively in considering how things are made, by whom and from where it comes. This naturally leads to where it all goes and how the entire process affects ‘the outdoors’.
How this can be brought into explaining how to light a fire with raw materials, knap a flint arrowhead, skin a rabbit, leave no trace etc to people, is something everyone on this forum can affect either way. None of us can claim to know enough about this.
So whether or not you like Ray Mears, Bear Grylls, David Attenborough, Bush Tucker Man, the Spring Watch team, et. al. and what you think they stand for, we must all support any effort to give everyone an opportunity to become interested in whatever they think ‘bushcraft’ is, because as far as i’m concerned, that will help to improve opportunities for future generations to feel some sense of stewardship over what otherwise can be presented as being somebody else’s land and problem.
So much to learn and do, such little time.
Toodle Pip.
“In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees”
If so, it should be mentioned that never in human history, have so many people of all ages been engaged so actively in considering how things are made, by whom and from where it comes. This naturally leads to where it all goes and how the entire process affects ‘the outdoors’.
How this can be brought into explaining how to light a fire with raw materials, knap a flint arrowhead, skin a rabbit, leave no trace etc to people, is something everyone on this forum can affect either way. None of us can claim to know enough about this.
So whether or not you like Ray Mears, Bear Grylls, David Attenborough, Bush Tucker Man, the Spring Watch team, et. al. and what you think they stand for, we must all support any effort to give everyone an opportunity to become interested in whatever they think ‘bushcraft’ is, because as far as i’m concerned, that will help to improve opportunities for future generations to feel some sense of stewardship over what otherwise can be presented as being somebody else’s land and problem.
So much to learn and do, such little time.
Toodle Pip.
“In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees”
Janne ? Scotland didn't copy Sweden, we always wandered pretty much where we pleased. It was never an offence to be somewhere just for a walk, and only became an offence to hunt and fish when the hunting/shooting/fishing brigade tied the UK up in game laws, etc., to protect their 'sport'.
All the legislation did was to formally put a legal right of responsible access onto the books.
There's another point too, much of Scandinavia was and is unsuitable for anything but maybe growing trees. No one bothered about owning any rights to that land. England and Wales on the other hand are very much coveted land (we're still a target for immigration!) and it was parceled up pdq in the past. The high lands of the UK on the other hand were used much like the Swiss did, for transhumance, when flocks and herds were pastured on them in Summertime.
The rights of pannage in the lowland forests were strictly controlled and that's a whole other ballgame re access too.
M
All the legislation did was to formally put a legal right of responsible access onto the books.
There's another point too, much of Scandinavia was and is unsuitable for anything but maybe growing trees. No one bothered about owning any rights to that land. England and Wales on the other hand are very much coveted land (we're still a target for immigration!) and it was parceled up pdq in the past. The high lands of the UK on the other hand were used much like the Swiss did, for transhumance, when flocks and herds were pastured on them in Summertime.
The rights of pannage in the lowland forests were strictly controlled and that's a whole other ballgame re access too.
M
Should be a part of the school curriculum. Considering how much they cut, it will never happen though.
IMO learning these things opens your mind to many more areas, like not being wasteful, not to mess up the environment, and so on.
Toddy, last night I read up on the Scottish "Roam" legislation.
Virtually a translated copy of the Swedish one, including the restrictions.
Coincidence?
Is it bad to take on something somebody has fine tuned over many decades?
I think not!
If it works - do not change it!
Sweden has adopted many things from UK.
it is a good thing you have been (by tradition) roaming around freely, but this legislation will make sure no land owner can stop you doing this, something they could in the past.
Can you pick berries, wild fruits and funghi too?
Most land in Sweden is owned, and it is certainly used.
Forestry is a huge business, bigger in revenue and number of jobs that the land used for growing food.
So very valuable, hence the restrictions.
That is why last years forest fires were so devastating, why the countries that also have a huge forestry business sent help. Russia, Poland and so on.
I do not think UK send anything?
IMO learning these things opens your mind to many more areas, like not being wasteful, not to mess up the environment, and so on.
Toddy, last night I read up on the Scottish "Roam" legislation.
Virtually a translated copy of the Swedish one, including the restrictions.
Coincidence?
Is it bad to take on something somebody has fine tuned over many decades?
I think not!
If it works - do not change it!
Sweden has adopted many things from UK.
it is a good thing you have been (by tradition) roaming around freely, but this legislation will make sure no land owner can stop you doing this, something they could in the past.
Can you pick berries, wild fruits and funghi too?
Most land in Sweden is owned, and it is certainly used.
Forestry is a huge business, bigger in revenue and number of jobs that the land used for growing food.
So very valuable, hence the restrictions.
That is why last years forest fires were so devastating, why the countries that also have a huge forestry business sent help. Russia, Poland and so on.
I do not think UK send anything?
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Yes I can pick fruit and fungi, and have done since infancy. We even have old songs about berry picking, and faeries stealing away bairns it's not a new concept here.
All that happened was that it was formalised into law.
As to the written legislation and plagiarism, did you look at the Swiss ones ? or the Latvian ones. The same concept comes through with the same type of terms and legalese.
Now your land is owned and forestry is big business, but before the days of mechanisation, much of it was like much of the land that RV talks of, used by few people on a seasonal basis. Just like the highland and moorlands of the UK.....incidentally those lands are those most likely to be free of most restrictions south of the border even today.
They are all 'owned', just that the ownership doesn't preclude other people from wandering through them.
Forestry in the UK does not employ great numbers of people, less than 50,000 people all told, and that includes the processing factories, chipboard, laminate makers, etc.,
Many of those actual forestry jobs are seasonal. We don't have a 'huge forestry business', mostly it's small business' trying hard to make ends meet.
Only 13% of our landmass is forested, and that includes all forests, not just the plantations. 80% of those trees though are under 100 years old, and nearly 50% of the forests are not managed for timber production. We actually only produce about a fifth of the timber we process, so that's a lot of importing.....we're a market for your exports. I don't see how we could help apart from still buying what you have to sell.....maybe providing seedlings ?
it's not a new concept here.All that happened was that it was formalised into law.
As to the written legislation and plagiarism, did you look at the Swiss ones ? or the Latvian ones. The same concept comes through with the same type of terms and legalese.
Now your land is owned and forestry is big business, but before the days of mechanisation, much of it was like much of the land that RV talks of, used by few people on a seasonal basis. Just like the highland and moorlands of the UK.....incidentally those lands are those most likely to be free of most restrictions south of the border even today.
They are all 'owned', just that the ownership doesn't preclude other people from wandering through them.
Forestry in the UK does not employ great numbers of people, less than 50,000 people all told, and that includes the processing factories, chipboard, laminate makers, etc.,
Many of those actual forestry jobs are seasonal. We don't have a 'huge forestry business', mostly it's small business' trying hard to make ends meet.
Only 13% of our landmass is forested, and that includes all forests, not just the plantations. 80% of those trees though are under 100 years old, and nearly 50% of the forests are not managed for timber production. We actually only produce about a fifth of the timber we process, so that's a lot of importing.....we're a market for your exports. I don't see how we could help apart from still buying what you have to sell.....maybe providing seedlings ?
Plagiarism is a negative word. I prefer 'adopting".
Forestry has been big business in Scandinavia, mainly Sweden, including the old 'colony' Finland, since Medieval times.
Export of Tar, Tar oil, timber. Furs back in the days.
Many European countries used Scandi timber in the ship building.
If you want to buy real quality timber, you need to look on the spacing of the year rings. If the wood is from the North, it is much denser, fuller of the sticky sap.
You could almost say it is borderline Fat wood.
By tradition, in those countries you mention, plus Czech Rep, Slovakia, Poland and the old Soviet countries, the Forest provided means to a better life for the poor people. Forestry was and is big.
Even if the crops failed, people could survive (just, and the strongest only) by using the forests.
It was a right/priviledge in Sweden to freely shoot Squirrel ( Red one ) for food. The other animals belonged to the owner, so were poached.
Some fish were OK to take, but not all. Pike was banned.
With the wage structure difference between UK and Sweden, I am sure a business exporting seedlings from Scotland ( UK?) would be fantastic.
Maybe it already exists?
Rumanian pine species do not work in Scandinavia, they do not produce timber grade trees, only pulp grade.
Forestry has been big business in Scandinavia, mainly Sweden, including the old 'colony' Finland, since Medieval times.
Export of Tar, Tar oil, timber. Furs back in the days.
Many European countries used Scandi timber in the ship building.
If you want to buy real quality timber, you need to look on the spacing of the year rings. If the wood is from the North, it is much denser, fuller of the sticky sap.
You could almost say it is borderline Fat wood.
By tradition, in those countries you mention, plus Czech Rep, Slovakia, Poland and the old Soviet countries, the Forest provided means to a better life for the poor people. Forestry was and is big.
Even if the crops failed, people could survive (just, and the strongest only) by using the forests.
It was a right/priviledge in Sweden to freely shoot Squirrel ( Red one ) for food. The other animals belonged to the owner, so were poached.
Some fish were OK to take, but not all. Pike was banned.
With the wage structure difference between UK and Sweden, I am sure a business exporting seedlings from Scotland ( UK?) would be fantastic.
Maybe it already exists?
Rumanian pine species do not work in Scandinavia, they do not produce timber grade trees, only pulp grade.
