It was this thread that nudged me into getting the Grubs Snowline 8.5, i was hovering on them and this thread swung the vote, i love my Grubs you really forget how cold your feet should have been until you are taking them off to climb in your sleeping bag, they almost retired my Alt-berg warrior aqua mk2 to their box cos if it is wet and cold enough to need them and i am not walking 20 mile the grubs are a better warmer and drier option