GPS & Wrong Maps.

[Stew]

I doubt many do but then the purpose of the route card should be to contain enough info to get you home incl 'emergency' routes if you need to get off a hill earlier than planned. Good point though, wouldn't fancy the shopping bill.

I bet a lot dont do route cards either. I bet a lot have a route planned, probably doodle a line on the map, but don't actually write stuff out and do all the plans for normal and emergency stuff.

 

[Imagedude]

So how many people carry a back up paper map in case their primary one gets lost/damaged?

I carry GPS with full colour mapping, Smartphone with colour maps, a Landranger map of the area and a 1:25000 and 1:50000 laminated printout from Anquet maps. I will have a orienteering thumb compass and a small baseplate compass as backup.

Regarding the story of the geezer with the Scotland map, I was a guest at the home of one of the mountain rescue team members when the shout went out. He wasn't best pleased about the nature of the call, and, like many other members of the team, he is considering resigning due to the nature and number of the callouts they receive these days. Back in the day, callouts were to aid people who, usually through no fault of their own, had gotten into difficulty. Now most callouts are either from knobbers on poorly organised charity events, people who are feeling a bit tired and fancy a helicopter trip home, people who are having a panic attack or people who cannot read a map. Currently the 2nd busiest MR team has about 60 members of which about 20 are active. Of those 20 about half are considering resigning or joining a neighboring (and less busy) team. So, potentially, that leaves 10 active members to cover about 200 callouts per year, do the maths, that's a situation that will end in tears sooner rather than later.

 

[pastymuncher]

Back in the day, callouts were to aid people who, usually through no fault of their own, had gotten into difficulty.

Surely the very fact that they are there means it is very much their own fault.

 

[Imagedude]

Surely the very fact that they are there means it is very much their own fault.

In as much as a cyclist is at fault when he gets squashed by a LGV because 'he was there'.

 

[pastymuncher]

If the cyclist was riding the wrong way down the motorway at night without lights, then its very much their fault.
If the lorry driver was watching their t.v. while driving in daytime then it was probably the lorry drivers fault.

My point being, if the "casualty" decided to go to the mountains, they put themselves in that situation, and so do the Mountain rescue "Volunteers".
No one forces the MRT to rescue people they do it because they want to.

 

[maddave]

There is a growing tendency amongst some people to not take responsibility for themselves and call out the rescue services at the drop of a hat often for non-emergency situations. One of the many thrills of being out in wild areas is being self-reliant. The old explorer Bill Tilman scorned any sort of intervention and refused to even carry flares on his ship strongly believing that you were responsible for your own actions and should not expect another person to risk their life to save your’s. ‘Responsibilty’ is becoming as old-fashioned as nailed boots.

That's exactly right. I always have paper maps. I have GPS on my phone, my motorcycle and my van, but under seats and in packs there is always a "real" map and a small accurate compass stashed away somewhere.... The magnetic poles aren't gonna change anytime soon

 

[Imagedude]

No one forces the MRT to rescue people they do it because they want to.

It's not quite that simple. Local MR teams belong to a larger organisation called MREW (Mountain Rescue England and Wales). If the team does not belong to MREW or does not conform to MREW guidelines then they will not receive the callout messages from the police. Most MR members joined to help fellow mountaineers and hill walkers, however most callouts now are not caused by competent and well equiped people who've had a mishap but are now usually calls to rescue poorly trained/equipped people who really shouldn't be out alone without a guide. They are also often called upon to assist with searches for missing people, assist with remote crime scenes etc. It is this added pressure that is causing long serving MR members to call it a day and is also making it harder to recruit or retain new members. If I'm not mistaken, to conform with MREW guidelines MR teams must 'retire' members aged over 65. Most of our better and most willing members are of this age.

So, in brief, many MR teams are staffed not by people who want to be there but by people who are hanging on due to a misplaced sense of duty.

 

[digitracker]

Maybe its about time that the various volunteer services were disbanded and the duties took up by the police and fire services who would be able to call upon more resources to cope with these emergencies. I am rather bemused by the fact that someone who volunteers to do anything doesn't want to be there. But saying that I do believe they do sterling work and are all very brave people risking there lives helping others. On the original story I am a paper map and compass user with a route card backup, and I give a copy to someone with estimated etas so that There is some sort of start point for anyone trying to find me if something happens to me.

 

[santaman2000]

Maybe its about time that the various volunteer services were disbanded and the duties took up by the police and fire services who would be able to call upon more resources to cope with these emergencies....

Sounds logical until you realize that the volunteers are among the "resources" that the professional police and fire call on.

 

[kiltedpict]

I've just read "Cairngorm John- a life in mountain rescue" and it was a great read and highlights many of the things mentioned in this thread including why he feels the MTR's should remain voluntary....

Well worth getting hold of a copy IMHO

 

[rckape]

Good book kittedpict, well worth a read.

I share Cairngorm Johns views on why civilian MR should remain voluntary, despite the obvious problems with recruiting and retention (I myself have added to the retention problem due to work commitments).

I'm relation to the OP: map and compass skills are not difficult to learn once you have grasped a few basic principles.

In my opinion there is no excuse for putting yourself in a situation where you may need them and not being able to navigate. There are plenty of reasonably priced training courses available.

 

[SCOMAN]

Maybe its about time that the various volunteer services were disbanded and the duties took up by the police and fire services who would be able to call upon more resources to cope with these emergencies. I am rather bemused by the fact that someone who volunteers to do anything doesn't want to be there. But saying that I do believe they do sterling work and are all very brave people risking there lives helping others. On the original story I am a paper map and compass user with a route card backup, and I give a copy to someone with estimated etas so that There is some sort of start point for anyone trying to find me if something happens to me.

As someone that's involved in a volunteer rescue organisation I can assure you a government led organisation paid for out of our taxes would not provide anywhere near the amount of cover that the volunteers do. Costs can be staggering just for equipment.

 

[Elen Sentier]

I often carry a 1:50 000 as well as a 1:25 000 - not just as a back up but to give the wider picture and help understand the landforms in the bigger picture
I have only once damaged a map to the point of "unusable" but that was when a brand new map case failed - it still gave me enough to get back to a road safely though.
Even a sopping map can be usable if you are lucky - a sopping GPS ... I doubt it

So do I ...

 

[Bowlander]

I'd rather have a GPS than the wrong map!