Government consultation on banning large knives and machetes

[Kiri]

By the way, does anyone know if the Real Outdoors Forum still exists? I thought I would also post this on there, but all I get is a blank screen at the site address.

 

[Wildgoose]

Banning them is cities is basically what happens when you ban them in public spaces. I guess that'll be part of the proposed law somewhere. I mean you're not going to get enforcement in a private residence or open countryside unless you're unlucky.

Spokesman from a knife crime campaign charity on tv said that the majority of knife crimes were carried out with a zombie knife according to research. I always thought it was kitchen knives or some kind of legitimate carry knives. Either he's giving false statements to promote a pov or my understanding is wrong / situation changed.

In reality I believe it’s a mix.
In the 80s and 90s lock knives were popular as were sharpened screwdrivers.
Kitchen knives followed, being readily accessible and cheap, certainly cheap enough to throw away if used or chased etc.
more recently the zombie knives, tactical knives and machetes have proved popular and they frequently feature in low budget music videos. It’s an image thing.
A kitchen knife is probably the more effective weapon but doesn’t have the same street cred as a large tactical black pointy blade.

 

[slowworm]

I shall make time to properly read through the proposals and fill out the survey. Worth everyone else reading through it as it's not just about knives in a public place but at home.

It is also worrying that it's trying to restrict things even more after the last recent changes so I can see if items such as "Machetes and other large, bladed tools such as scythes, billhooks and large outdoor knives" are added to the legislation in any way then were one step away from an outright band.

As a smallholder/woodsman who uses a machete for bramble clearance, billhook for hedge laying and a scythe cutting long grass and nettles it's rather concerning.

As with other proposals I'm not sure the government wants anyone, or can comprehend anyome, other than large scale industrial farming to be able to work the land these days.

 

[beachlover]

By the way, does anyone know if the Real Outdoors Forum still exists? I thought I would also post this on there, but all I get is a blank screen at the site address.

We've moved.
I've dropped you a PM.

 

[Wayne]

This proposal is an an attack on heritage crafts and practical conservation. Ill thought through.

 

[Nice65]

Thanks @Kiri for posting. Good to hear from you too, been a while.

 

[JB101]

As usual its a case of being seen to be doing something about the 'problem'

The exisiting legislation is sufficient but needs to be enforced properly that is THE problem .

Banning something does not make it go away ,just look at gun crime in the UK.

I think its insidious about the potential seizing other items of private property,given the proposals all knives/bladed objects could be seized from a person/household in a 'search'

 

[Paul_B]

There were gun controls in place when that guy with mental health issues went gun crazy in North Lakes a few years ago. He had a licence and legally held guns which he used kill and attack ppl. So with any legislation that bans something or controls something you really need to consider whether the ban is right, whether it can be enforced and if it is likely to stop the negatives it's intended to reduce or stop.

Other legislation that intends to controls negative that hasn't worked as intended in the UK include gun licensing, driving legislation of all kinds, knife legislation, various legislations about s3xual violence, etc I'm sure you'll know many more.

Used a cheap machete at work again. Something like the link below. Will that be illegal if this goes through?

Machete

 

[gg012]

How many times do we have to put up with headline grabbing "legislation" whilst ignoring the real issue. It is not the inanimate tool that kills people its the misguided person using it. This ban will only affect the law abiding people and not the criminals who care not for law.

The tool will simply change to a hammer, kitchen knife, billhook etc etc. Poverty, lack of opportunity and education is the problem that needs solving.

One of my responses was almost exactly the same as this

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

 

[dwardo]

I wonder how many terrified people held at knife point have looked down at the 10" kitchen knife and thought..

"Weeell its not that bad is it really??, good job it`s not one of those slightly bigger knives with holes in it!!!"

I can say from experience size really doesn't matter........

 

[Bearmont]

Repeal all carry laws and just dish out draconic punishments for the actual knife crime. But we can't do that for some reason. Almost like the nannying is part of the program.

 

[SaraR]

I wonder how many terrified people held at knife point have looked down at the 10" kitchen knife and thought..

"Weeell its not that bad is it really??, good job it`s not one of those slightly bigger knives with holes in it!!!"

I can say from experience size really doesn't matter........

 

[EdS]

Today the Government launches its public consultation on banning large knives and machetes and four other anti knife crime measures. The link to the consultation may be found here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/…cles-proposed-legislation

The online survey can be found here:

https://www.homeofficesurveys.…v.uk/s/knife-legislation/

It only lasts 7 weeks and ends on 6 June.

Please take part in this consultation. You can guarantee that the police, victims groups and others who support this ban, or would like to go for a much wider ban, will be responding. If we want our interests to be represented then we need to take part. The last big consultation around the Offensive Weapons Act 2019 saw 10,712 responses.

But it won’t make any difference? Actually responding to consultations does help shape the outcome. When the ban on curved swords came in 2008, the only reason we can still own curved swords made by traditional methods, and that there are defences relating to sporting and religious uses, is because the public raised concerns around legitimate reasons for owning curved swords. Many of the defences in the Offensive Weapons Act 2019 are also there because the public raised their concerns via the consultation process.

But I don’t own a zombie / fantasy type knife or machete, why should I care? If you read what the police have been saying in the media and forums around this subject, it’s clear they would like a total ban on all machetes and knives over a certain length. This would see all large bladed knives, kukris, parangs, billhooks, scythes, nata, hunting knives etc. banned. The police do not accept that there are legitimate reasons to own large bladed tools. What the Government is initially proposing with this ban on fantasy type stuff is a lot less than what most police want. You can guarantee the police and others will be making this point in their responses to the consultation.

Question 5 in the consultation (explained on page 6 of the document) is asking about what uses there actually are for all machetes and large knives in the UK today (not just the fantasy types). It’s likely the answers or lack of answers to that question will be used as evidence that there is no real need for machetes / large knives and this could lead to a wider ban now or be used to support a wider ban in the future. So even if you don’t own an “Anglo Arms Long Reach Machete” or similar, but would like to be able to still cut down brambles in your garden with your Martindale, or enjoy using your parang or large camp knife for bushcrafting, please do take part.

At the moment this is most likely to impact on those who collect fantasy / movie type knives, but depending on where they set the starting length will have a big impact on how many items fall in to scope. If it’s 8” and depending on what features they choose, a lot of part serrated knives and even some kitchen knives may fall in to scope. If it’s 10” less will fall in scope. If set at 8” or 9” many Rambo knives will likely fall in to scope.

But I don’t want my name published? Although you have to give your details to respond, there is an option you can select for this to be anonymous, so your name is not published.

But if I respond the deep state will put me on a watch list and MI6 drones will hover permanently over my house and I will be scanned by the 5G network until they come to seize my collection? No, anyone who has any experience with policing will tell you this does not happen and the police / government have more things to worry about than carrying out surveillance on people who respond to a consultation. If the drones are watching you, it’s because you have done something else!

What else can I do? Please share the link. If the ban is extended wider, then this will impact on any job or pastime where a large bladed tool is used to clear undergrowth, so please share with any other groups or individuals you think might be interested. Hunting, Shooting, Fishing, Agriculture, Farming, Gardening, Bushcrafting, Camping etc.

Secondly, one of the best things you can do is email your MP listing your concerns and ask them to raise your concerns with the Minister for Crime, Policing and Fire (Currently - Rt Hon Chris Philp MP) or the Home Secretary (Currently Rt Hon Suella Braverman KC MP).

If you don’t know who your MP is or their email address, you can find out here:https://members.parliament.uk/FindYourMP

Bear in mind we are in a politically active time. There will shortly be local council elections and next year a general election . The Conservatives are desperate for good news stories about what they have done to be tough on crime and banning machetes is a relatively cheap quick win for them (compared to other issues like immigration etc). If Labour get in at the next general election (likely) they will be scrabbling to distance themselves from the previous Government’s policies and may well want to be seen to be tougher and do the thing the previous Government were too soft to do etc. Implying that you usually vote for them but won’t if they ban your (long bladed tool of choice) may get their attention.

The ban is only one of the 5 measures. I notice that for one of the others they are proposing that the police should be able, if they are in your home, to be able to seize and have destroyed any bladed item (including totally legal ones) if they have a reasonable belief it will be used in crime. This is actually quite a serious infringement of your right to enjoy your own property and people may face their legally held property being seized and destroyed on the basis of something they haven’t done yet! (And we thought Pre-Crime solely existed in the realms of science fiction!). While I understand their case studies, in practice what will probably happen is someone has a noisy argument with their wife / husband and a nosy neighbour calls the police. They come in for a “moment” and the next thing you know that person’s entire collection and their kitchen knives end up in the furnace, to protect wife / husband from the imminent domestic violence they think is about to happen. What could possibly go wrong with that power….

Please do respond to the consultation.

Screwdrivers and hammers were the favourite when I was a teenager.

Also ban broken glass..... I've been threatened with more large shards of glass than bladez

Today the Government launches its public consultation on banning large knives and machetes and four other anti knife crime measures. The link to the consultation may be found here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/…cles-proposed-legislation

The online survey can be found here:

https://www.homeofficesurveys.…v.uk/s/knife-legislation/

It only lasts 7 weeks and ends on 6 June.

Please take part in this consultation. You can guarantee that the police, victims groups and others who support this ban, or would like to go for a much wider ban, will be responding. If we want our interests to be represented then we need to take part. The last big consultation around the Offensive Weapons Act 2019 saw 10,712 responses.

But it won’t make any difference? Actually responding to consultations does help shape the outcome. When the ban on curved swords came in 2008, the only reason we can still own curved swords made by traditional methods, and that there are defences relating to sporting and religious uses, is because the public raised concerns around legitimate reasons for owning curved swords. Many of the defences in the Offensive Weapons Act 2019 are also there because the public raised their concerns via the consultation process.

But I don’t own a zombie / fantasy type knife or machete, why should I care? If you read what the police have been saying in the media and forums around this subject, it’s clear they would like a total ban on all machetes and knives over a certain length. This would see all large bladed knives, kukris, parangs, billhooks, scythes, nata, hunting knives etc. banned. The police do not accept that there are legitimate reasons to own large bladed tools. What the Government is initially proposing with this ban on fantasy type stuff is a lot less than what most police want. You can guarantee the police and others will be making this point in their responses to the consultation.

Question 5 in the consultation (explained on page 6 of the document) is asking about what uses there actually are for all machetes and large knives in the UK today (not just the fantasy types). It’s likely the answers or lack of answers to that question will be used as evidence that there is no real need for machetes / large knives and this could lead to a wider ban now or be used to support a wider ban in the future. So even if you don’t own an “Anglo Arms Long Reach Machete” or similar, but would like to be able to still cut down brambles in your garden with your Martindale, or enjoy using your parang or large camp knife for bushcrafting, please do take part.

At the moment this is most likely to impact on those who collect fantasy / movie type knives, but depending on where they set the starting length will have a big impact on how many items fall in to scope. If it’s 8” and depending on what features they choose, a lot of part serrated knives and even some kitchen knives may fall in to scope. If it’s 10” less will fall in scope. If set at 8” or 9” many Rambo knives will likely fall in to scope.

But I don’t want my name published? Although you have to give your details to respond, there is an option you can select for this to be anonymous, so your name is not published.

But if I respond the deep state will put me on a watch list and MI6 drones will hover permanently over my house and I will be scanned by the 5G network until they come to seize my collection? No, anyone who has any experience with policing will tell you this does not happen and the police / government have more things to worry about than carrying out surveillance on people who respond to a consultation. If the drones are watching you, it’s because you have done something else!

What else can I do? Please share the link. If the ban is extended wider, then this will impact on any job or pastime where a large bladed tool is used to clear undergrowth, so please share with any other groups or individuals you think might be interested. Hunting, Shooting, Fishing, Agriculture, Farming, Gardening, Bushcrafting, Camping etc.

Secondly, one of the best things you can do is email your MP listing your concerns and ask them to raise your concerns with the Minister for Crime, Policing and Fire (Currently - Rt Hon Chris Philp MP) or the Home Secretary (Currently Rt Hon Suella Braverman KC MP).

If you don’t know who your MP is or their email address, you can find out here:https://members.parliament.uk/FindYourMP

Bear in mind we are in a politically active time. There will shortly be local council elections and next year a general election . The Conservatives are desperate for good news stories about what they have done to be tough on crime and banning machetes is a relatively cheap quick win for them (compared to other issues like immigration etc). If Labour get in at the next general election (likely) they will be scrabbling to distance themselves from the previous Government’s policies and may well want to be seen to be tougher and do the thing the previous Government were too soft to do etc. Implying that you usually vote for them but won’t if they ban your (long bladed tool of choice) may get their attention.

The ban is only one of the 5 measures. I notice that for one of the others they are proposing that the police should be able, if they are in your home, to be able to seize and have destroyed any bladed item (including totally legal ones) if they have a reasonable belief it will be used in crime. This is actually quite a serious infringement of your right to enjoy your own property and people may face their legally held property being seized and destroyed on the basis of something they haven’t done yet! (And we thought Pre-Crime solely existed in the realms of science fiction!). While I understand their case studies, in practice what will probably happen is someone has a noisy argument with their wife / husband and a nosy neighbour calls the police. They come in for a “moment” and the next thing you know that person’s entire collection and their kitchen knives end up in the furnace, to protect wife / husband from the imminent domestic violence they think is about to happen. What could possibly go wrong with that power….

Please do respond to the consultation.

Have to ban glass shards to

 

[Ozmundo]

Screwdrivers and hammers were the favourite when I was a teenager.

Also ban broken glass..... I've been threatened with more large shards of glass than bladez

Have to ban glass shards to

Glass, must have been Ladies night!

 

[ONE]

But we can't do that for some reason.

In all seriousness, prison space.

 

[Bearmont]

Yeah, it's possible. That would be a pretty dismal explanation though. I recently watched the interview of a very popular protest culture personality here in Germany who just got out of prison (wrongfully in investigative custody for 9 months just to make the protests cool off), and he basically said that too many of the people he met inside were solid people who had been, by their own accounts, innocent and wrongfully sentenced. It wouldn't surprise me if that were the case. But you are right in that actually getting the right people in prison, and most of them, would probably grind the system to a standstill also.

But I can see this conversation going in a direction that's outside of the scope of this forum so I'll leave it at that and hopefully, nobody minds me saying it.

 

[Van-Wild]

We've moved.
I've dropped you a PM.

Me to please!

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

 

[Nice65]

Me to please!

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

I’ll drop you a message.

 

[ONE]

Filled in the questionnaire, but I have to say that even from the way it's drawn up, I have the notion the legislation is a foregone, it's simply a question of how hard it's going to hit.

 

[ANDYLASER]

"Serrated blades with more than one hole". Could cause some problems.