Goretex and Lightweight walkers

[Miniwhisk]

Event fabric is a wonderful breathable thing. Its not cheap. Rab clothing is so well made. They think of how the clothing will move, conditions its used in. Technical gear needs a technical treatment. If you still don't vent enough, some of their jackets have 'pit zips'. I do like Rab but there is also berghouse or golight. Yes, many others.

Sit comfortably in your own skin, budget and pick what works for you. Be it wet in wool, an umbrella, a military poncho or a Rab waterproof.

 

[sandbender]

"...I've tried the pertex and pile stuff and even in freezing conditions i just overheat, they're also heavy and you've got all your eggs in one basket if the weather changes for the better..."

I think most of the Buffalo stuff is designed to keep you warm on Mars or somewhere similar, I use the Teclite Shirt which weighs very little and has kept me quite cosy while walking the West Highland Way in a wet and windy October.

 

[Bluffer]

I think membranes have seen their peak, softshell is the way ahead.

 

[cbr6fs]

I think most of the Buffalo stuff is designed to keep you warm on Mars or somewhere similar, I use the Teclite Shirt which weighs very little and has kept me quite cosy while walking the West Highland Way in a wet and windy October.

Many years ago i wore my Buffalo on a weeks hiking and camping in Scotland in February, had all the zips open and STILL i've never sweated so much in my life, bear in mind it's in the high 30c's here today as well.

That's really the problem i've had with these all in one type products.

In theory they're designed so you open the zips and vents when exerting yourself and close all the vents when you're stopped to keep you warm.

In practice for me i sweat like a Yak in a sauna when hiking uphill even with every panel and zip open and i'm sat shivering at lunch stops with everything done up tight.

It's a shame because i've tried a fair few over years as i really like the concept, in practice though i just find them too much of a compromise.

Clothing layers just seems to work far far better for me, it does take a bit of experimenting to find a good system, especially as most hikers tend to prefer to walk hot.
For me i've found it better to be just slightly cold when walking on the flat, i'll then slow my pace on the uphills if i'm sweating too much and slip on a windproof layer when i get too cold.

I think membranes have seen their peak, softshell is the way ahead.

Again though it really depends on the activity you are doing and the conditions, over here you rarely need a pullover on when hiking hard, so a softshell is just too hot for most the times.

Plus hard shells are very lightweight and pack up really small in comparison.

 

[mrcharly]

I suspect walking in Greece isn't much different to Australia; and I agree with cb6fs, buffalo is overkill for much of that climate. one thin layer, a thin woolly pullover and a basic hard shell are all you need. Heck, a lot of the time in Australia that is best combined with shorts (even in winter).

UK hill walking is a bit different. Very hard work uphill, sweating buckets, then a high likelyhood of being in thick cloud and strong winds with a 10-15C difference between the valley and hilltop temperatures. The buffalo stuff lets the sweat out, stops the wind and insulates you. I've never found a hardshell that could cope with the sweat levels I get when hillwalking. As said above, even a cotton T will end up soaked in sweat so it's no wonder that goretex can't let the sweat out.

I've also used the pertex and pile stuff when sailing small boats. In those conditions you end up dirty, slopped with seawater - then you stand motionless possibly for hours.

 

[MikeLA]

It's all about compromise.

If you're exerting yourself doing something like walking up a mountain at anything over 10c then you are going to sweat.
It doesn't matter if you're going shirtless, you're still going to sweat.

Throw on a lightweight cotton teeshirt and even something as breathable as light weight cotton is going to wet out eventually.
Throw a shell jacket over that and it's only going to get worse on the sweat front.

I was up in the Lake Distract earlier in the year as we were caught up by these 2 blokes, one of which was cursing for England how his new £300 waterproof coat wasn't breathing.

It was barely spitting with rain, i had on just my Merino base layer and was sweating, this guy had just climbed the first to crinkle crags and was wearing a base layer, fleece pullover AND his shell jacket.

It's not just a one off either, it's something i keep coming across time and time again.
Weird thing is folks don't tend to complain about sweating in a softshell even though they do as much if not more than most modern hard shells.

So i'm of the conclusion that you need to be just slightly cold layer wise under a hard shell, even then if you're doing a strenuous activity and sweating either open the zip or just slow your pace a bit.

I've tried the pertex and pile stuff and even in freezing conditions i just overheat, they're also heavy and you've got all your eggs in one basket if the weather changes for the better.

So if you think about your expectations use some common sense then hardshells like eVent, goretex, Neoshell etc DO work.

And if you use your common sense and do the things you have said here, so do the cheaper alternatives. I walked in winter with just a Helly hansen and a Cotton Sweatshirt in very cold and put the waterproof on when needed over the thermal only. All common sense really.

 

[Bluffer]

Again though it really depends on the activity you are doing and the conditions, over here you rarely need a pullover on when hiking hard, so a softshell is just too hot for most the times.

Plus hard shells are very lightweight and pack up really small in comparison.

Try something like the OMM Kamleika outfit, it is lighter in weight than most t-shirts, very comfortable and in many conditions will do double-duty as windproof and waterproof/warm kit.

 

[cbr6fs]

And if you use your common sense and do the things you have said here, so do the cheaper alternatives. I walked in winter with just a Helly hansen and a Cotton Sweatshirt in very cold and put the waterproof on when needed over the thermal only. All common sense really.

common sense, cotton sweat shirt, very cold.

Sorry Mike but i have to say those things do not go together well.
I love cotton, in the summer months here it's pretty much all i wear, in winter though with a good chance of rain and very cold conditions a cotton sweat shirt is a extremely bad choice.

Again context is important, if your returning from the gym or nipping out for a loaf of bread a cotton sweat shirt would be ok.

If you're out in the middle of nowhere and it starts raining and your only mid layer is a cotton sweat shirt then you are going to get into a fair of trouble very very easily.

Again i love cotton, my most recent 4 day hike/wild camp i wore cotton teeshirts, but if it's cold and wet a cotton sweat shirt is not what you want to be wearing mate.

Try something like the OMM Kamleika outfit, it is lighter in weight than most t-shirts, very comfortable and in many conditions will do double-duty as windproof and waterproof/warm kit.

Thanks for that

There tends to be very little humidity here in the colder months, i've been out fishing in February (a hobby not exactly known for athleticism) and have been warm in just a teeshirt, even on the cold days usually a long sleeved Merino base layer is usually enough.

I do have a very light fleece pullover i take, but even that is too warm when you've got your head down and pushing on.

I was gifted a really nice North Face jacket, with built in windstop material, really really comfortable to wear but i've only worn it twice, first time was on a snowy hike and i was wet through again, second time was sat in my mates mountain summer house in the snow, it was perfect for that.

It's not just Greece either, i'm often hiking in the UK in just a merino base layer.
Try my hardest to avoid camping or hiking on the snow, ice or really cold weather, so they tend to be a bit overkill for my purposes.

I do really like the OMM kit though.
Tried a OMM waterproof earlier in the year and was really disappointed that i couldn't get on with the fit, was way too tight on the arms and chest.

 

[Bluffer]

Yep, true dat, some lightweight gear is built for speed, not comfort!

American-made gear (TNF and the like) is usually better in the chest and arms than UK-made gear (Montane, Rab, etc).

There is a fabric called Polartec Alpha which is quite good but it's a replacement for a fleece jacket rather than a full-spec waterproof.

Paramo have done very well in recent years, some of their lightweight jackets are very user-friendly in the sense that they are not much heavier than gore-tex, but double up as warm kit and windproof, i.e. you carry less clothing and therefore less weight overall even though they are on the heavy side.

 

[Ciaopaddy]

I got a Paramo recently but have only really used it in Sweden so far. Being a red-headed Irishman who usually dies in anything over 23c I had to wear it to stop yet more sunburn in what I later found was 26+c and I was actually fine in it. I've just worn it briefly at home in two very heavy cloudbursts where it kept me dry and now I'm really looking forward to testing it in the hills in winter on the west coast where I am. If it keeps me dry there I'll be a fan for life but I've been very impressed so far.

 

[Bluffer]

I gave up trying to stay dry many years ago, hasn't done me any harm because I use outer clothing that is OK-ish in the rain but which does not have to be removed during breaks in the rain (Paramo variants and softshells).

I get dressed for the day ahead (walking or paddling) and simply keep in that order of dress until it's sleepy time.

If it starts to rain, I'm not dangerously wet.

If it stops raining and the sun comes out for 10 minutes, I dry off a bit but I don't overheat.

Membrane waterproof clothing and traditional insulation just doesn't work for me in most conditions.

I read the advertising for most fabrics and chuckle, nothing will keep out the rain for prolonged periods (especially in the UK) and it is more important to stay adequately protected and reasonably comfortable than 'dry' which just is not possible!

 

[sandbender]

"...Many years ago i wore my Buffalo on a weeks hiking and camping in Scotland in February, had all the zips open and STILL i've never sweated so much in my life, bear in mind it's in the high 30c's here today as well..."

The Buffalo Teclite shirts are very very thin in comparison the the rest of the range, I don't find excessive perspiration to be a problem. One does have to have a wooly jumper or something similar for base camp of for stops longer than ten minutes though. Additionally the Buffalo tops will dry quite quickly, however if it is excessively humid or similar and it doesn't dry then getting into a wet Buffalo top in the morning isn't pleasant, you will warm up soon enough once you are on your way though.

I used the Teclite shirt while circumnavigating (on foot) a couple of the Cyclades, that was in late October though, so not so warm.

 

[bigbear]

Agree totally with the comments above about folk wearing too much kit when moving in the hills, you need the other layers for when you choose to or are forced to stop. A merino and a windproof are fine a surprising amount of time even on winter in Scotland as long as you are working, its when you stop or alternate stop and go as in climbing that you need the other layers.

 

[MikeLA]

common sense, cotton sweat shirt, very cold.

Sorry Mike but i have to say those things do not go together well.
I love cotton, in the summer months here it's pretty much all i wear, in winter though with a good chance of rain and very cold conditions a cotton sweat shirt is a extremely bad choice.

Again context is important, if your returning from the gym or nipping out for a loaf of bread a cotton sweat shirt would be ok.

If you're out in the middle of nowhere and it starts raining and your only mid layer is a cotton sweat shirt then you are going to get into a fair of trouble very very easily.

Again i love cotton, my most recent 4 day hike/wild camp i wore cotton teeshirts, but if it's cold and wet a cotton sweat shirt is not what you want to be wearing mate.

.

I know but it works for me change a night let it dry wet kit dry and wearing just these during the day ment i sweated less especially in the winter. One of my best long winter walks was -10 for 12 days using these and i never had any problems, as long as you watch what you are doing layering. Summer just a t shirt

 

[rg598]

It's a strange question because it assumes a bunch of things.

For one, Goretex is just a membrane. It can be made heavy or light depending on what material you bond it to. So, going light is not the only reason to use Goretex, nor is using Goretex necessarily a weight saving measure.

I think Goretex works great. I am yet to see a natural material that will even come close to matching it in terms of being waterproof. Ventile is a soft shell, not a hard shell material. If you are okay with using a soft shell on your trips rather than a hard shell, then you can find plenty of affordable and lightweight soft shell materials on the market. Goretex is a hard shell and is designed for specific conditions.

The reason why people spend money to save weight is because weight matters. If you are pushing yourself, every ounce counts. When you are melting snow for water, every ounce of weight you can save from your shell is an extra ounce of fuel you can bring. That being said, there are other alternatives to Goretex in the same weight range. eVent is similar in weight, so is NeoShell. Natural materials are way more than just an ounce heavier. I don't know if that is the comparison you meant to make.