Goodbye Tipi, Hello Laavu?

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TurboGirl

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 8, 2011
2,326
1
Leicestershire
www.king4wd.co.uk
Just waved a sad farewell to my old recycled tipi and decided I need to bring its spirit forward into a laavu :)

I learned a LOT from making the tipi, much of which seems pretty symbiotic with the laavu design although I think the designs can amalgramate to be a 'best of both worlds' hybrid to suit our woodlands... I'm not a traveller beyond these shores so it doesn't need to be hugely over engineered. Luckily ;)

The basic tipi pattern was a semi circle with add ons to provide smoke flaps, doorway and a fly front, cut from a discarded gazebo with engine parts (conrods to stitch the front together and valves for tent pegs). The slight offset at the centre makes the cover semicircle slightly shorter at the rear, allowing for a more vertical back to the wind, supported by a longer front which braces against the wind.

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I developed the pattern to suit the materials to hand from the tipi making bible by the Laubins, which worked out something like this....

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It took 11 poles (inc 2 for supporting the chimney flaps) which were the biggest PIA to transport- definate downside to trad tipis and something I want to eliminate from a more practical design! It was brilliant for festivals but not so good in strong winds or rain because of the noise of the cheap material- I've erected it in horizontal rain so it wasn't an inherent design flaw but something to iron out in its next reincarnation :)

There's a pair of inner liners which create the 'chimney' effect and prevent shadows from the interior giving enemy braves a perfectly silhouetted target... ok, not quite so important but it did insulate a good deal by reflecting the heat onto the seating/ sleeping area and is definately an idea for the laavu :) I added a raincap and some surface decoration, job done. here's how she formed up at a Jan meet with a calor stove, pretty cushty but not what it really was designed for...

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The fabric used on the laavu pro is fabulous and there's a lot to be admired in the design but I want standing room and an internal fire... I'll include it for inspiration though, you can never have too many tent option pics ;)...

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And the loue is brilliant but I'd want two set up as a facing pair and it's still not gonna be as warm as an integral unit.... gratuitous pic as I'm considering the upstand as a good design feature a la bell tent to improve a laavu, the tipi always wasted a fair bit of space in the 'eaves'....

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So I have to consider my wishlist- 3 folks and their kit or 2 people in comfort, one in unashamed luxury. Can use existing calor bottle stove internally. Camo (ripstop 2-4oz nylon) main fabric. Possible 1.25m high liner/ groundsheet, liner using 4oz aluminized nylon. Unending zip fastening to front. Easy to erect so I might consider using the chimney stove as part of the internal pole and in low wind, it's be nice to omit the central pole entirely if suspended from a line between trees. I was considering using part of a rotary clothes line/ umbrella mechanism for a supportive central shaping for the apex, especially if it will hold the fabric around the chimney (which would need slight adaptions in a 90 degree cap with spark arrester, I'm not risking it like I did with the tipi!). Mozzie nets seem a great idea for summer use so I need to form a removable inner door and possible insert for the top. Extra venting with mozzie netting on the lower body of the erection might be a nice addition too for hot weather use- I'd just pull up the cover of the tipi and fold it up the poles which won't be as easy on this, I should think :)

Have I missed anything? Do any laavu users have anything they use/ have added/ wish their manufacturers had included or considered? Any recommendations for especially brilliant manufacturers so can stalk their products for ideas?! Anyone made one and have hints and tips for me please? Cheers, bushfamily!
 
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TurboGirl

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 8, 2011
2,326
1
Leicestershire
www.king4wd.co.uk
Thinking aloud here- materials supply list-
* 4oz aluminized from Point North for the lining
* 3-4oz ripstop breathable from my pet fleabay source for the outer... used him for tarp and hammock materials before. (Its best to know your full order quantity as I've had probs with repeat orders not matching specs on colour & weight)
* I should add uk fabrics online waterproof fabrics too, always worth a looksee :)
* I've loads of 1 & 1.5" polyprop webbing and neverending zips are pretty easily obtainable.
* Martin gave me the address of the place he got his chimney jack from in the US, Bear Paw Designs.... they also do the fabric for them (same page) and theres a fleabay store too, he also recommends checking the size you buy carefully, some are slightly shaped for tipi tents.

Design and DIY ideas linkys-
* Seam reinforcing in same fabric and proofing with silicone & spirit mix.... seems to have worked ok on my tarp anyhow :) 3:1 spirit to silicone IIRC. (DIY thread)
* Nice idea on a contemporary tipi apex
* Good discussion thread on a survivalist forum discussing laavu design
* Another thread from BCUK 2010 on laavu/ tipi design with some nice suggested linkys
* Briliant bloggers homemade laavu from 2oz by the look of it from 2dogs again, cheers lovey!
* A smashing pattern generator for a King Rene tent- not laavu related but heyyyy, its all about being dry :)
* Dutch lacing for the front- canvas tent shop.co.uk, link opens to their facebook video- they're a heavier canvas bell tent supplier.

Product descriptions, specs and info-
* Scandinavian Outdoor Store product overveiw (tarps & laavus) (cheers Cliff! x) (Just noticed they do an olive ripstop with silver backing for tarp/ tent making too, 4 euros p/m which is pretty darned good!)
* Tentipi laavus at Nordic Outdoors- good spec details on the fabrics on the individual styles for you, Johnny :)
* Helsport varanger 4-6 (not sure about the size of this but it links you to the overall tents and laavus page) I'm prefering the more extreme Finnmark model, specs wishlist is growing :)
* Cowboy camps' range tents... a version of the theme from the grand ole americees ;) (cheers andy! :)
* Varanger camp porch variant from Cliff, my information muse ;)
* Laplanders blog reveiw of the frisport andersnatten extreme with great construction pics... the frisport pdf erection instructions are well illustrated too, its linked off the blog :)
* Jervens site, twodogs reckons emailing them might be the best way to gain access to their fabric sales- Linky to their fabric page c/o DavidJT, thanki9ng you kindly :) p8 of their pdf book mentions the properties of their reflective PU au coated fabric.... moss rock camo, I want it sooooo bad ;)
* Bergans lavvo S 4-6- Priams one :)
* Green Outdoors make and rent out various ecofreindly tents.... so you can try before you buy! they're well worth a looksee, here's their main site :)
* Laavu design selection discussion with good diagram of parts at Taunton Leisure
 
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Johnnyboy1971

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 24, 2010
4,155
26
52
Yorkshire
I have a plan and measurments to make one, just not sure which material to use and wher to get it from.
Might just wait till i have bought Martins and use that as a plan.
 

TurboGirl

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 8, 2011
2,326
1
Leicestershire
www.king4wd.co.uk
I have a plan and measurments to make one, just not sure which material to use and wher to get it from.
Oooh plans and measurements?! Where from? Tell me more! Try the links on my materials lists below although I'm not 100% about the fabric yet, gotta research a little more on weights used in existing ones... no point going to breathable 4oz if 2oz is going to be acceptable :) It is very light though...
 
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Johnnyboy1971

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 24, 2010
4,155
26
52
Yorkshire
I spent a couple of hours last night with tape measure and calculator working some sizes out.
I have worked out heights and that at both 3.5mtr dia and 4mtr dia. Im thinking polycotton for the flame resistant properties.
 

TurboGirl

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 8, 2011
2,326
1
Leicestershire
www.king4wd.co.uk
Bless 'em, the yanks seem to love their range shelters :) You'll be the man for them eh Andy!

Jury's out for me, Johnny, on sizing.... Jasons was just about right, I wouldn't want to go smaller but larger could be difficult to erect and of course, more expensive on fabric yardage. The more I think about it, the more likely I feel the 4oz ripstop material is the answer. May I ask how tall the 4m calculated to at its apex? Were you looking at actual ones for your measurements or calculating off manufacturers spec sheets? I think this will be the next stage for me. When I have a rough pattern I can get the yardage and compare to existing weights to get an idea if the fabric is right, otherwise some manufacturers helpfully include it in their specs :) I'll add more URLs to the materials list at some point, any suggestions for linkys welcome! :)

karl, I suspect the project ban was initially brought on by brain tanning those 5 deerskins and compounded by having a wifely takeover bid on the mancave with knifemaking so its understandable really ;) If you want to do something for me, get him up the pub more often so I can sneak in some 'making' time.... 3 nights per week used to be perfect but he's hovering farrrrr too much atm for me to do anything other than enjoy a good naughty planning session!
 
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TurboGirl

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 8, 2011
2,326
1
Leicestershire
www.king4wd.co.uk
I've been whittling a new spindle and knitting, bodge, but it just ain't enough for me, besides, I've had to chuck the tipi and I can't afford to buy a replacement. So I'll make it. It's got to be done, I'm going crazy just doing girl stuff :) and if I can keep it enclosed into my store/ workroom, shouldn't be too much of a problem.... and if it is, I can always run and hide in the woods behind you guys, in a camo laavu, he'll never find me ;)
 
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TurboGirl

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 8, 2011
2,326
1
Leicestershire
www.king4wd.co.uk
Hey Sal - something like these - minus floor - might be easier to make (Basically 4 triangles!). And using two external poles would free up an awful lot of space lost by the tipi/laavu central pole...... http://cowboycamp.net/range_tents.php
Yayyyy, I saw those but lost the linky :) I'll add it to my 'thinking aloud' post (5) below, it's an interesting take on the idea :) I'm confident I can make the more complicated laavu design, though, and it's likely to be more secure against the elements. I want it to be a progression from the tipi really so the old gel lives on in spirit :)
 
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TurboGirl

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 8, 2011
2,326
1
Leicestershire
www.king4wd.co.uk
I understand Jervans sell fabric too but shaggystu and I can't find a link anywhere, does anyone know their URL pease? Or if anyone knows of a supplier of aluminised camo ripstop nylon, would LOVE that for the outer fabric )
 

TurboGirl

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 8, 2011
2,326
1
Leicestershire
www.king4wd.co.uk
Looks like a great poject underway there Sal. Good Luck. :)
Thank you kindly :) Us stay-at-homes have to have something to do while you're all off on your winter hols! You and Twodogs and everyone have a splendid time, bet you'll be bringing loads of inspiringly tempting nordic swag back with you ;) Roll on feb meet so we can see and hear about it all, I will be bringing my tape measure this time :) Martin, what make, model and size/ capacity is your laavu?
 
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