Getting in to archery

[dwardo]

Most traditional bows are woefully inaccurate, but you can achieve some degree of consistency with a lot of practice and good technique.

A bow is a bow at the end of the day and its all about the archer. Unless you start sticking sights, release aids, stabilisers on the thing then they are essentially the same.
So far as speed goes there is also very little difference if any between the two. It was only recently that glass bows started to hit the 200fps mark and a very well designed bow can reach 190fps so nawt in it.

Longbows and horse bows have a V E R Y steep increase in draw weight towards the end of their draw cycle, so yeh start light and build your strength up.

No well designed bow should show a drastic increase in draw weight towards the end of the draw unless it is poorly designed. A sharp increase towards the end of the draw is called "stacking" this means there is a problem with the design be it string angle or tiller. This can be seen in a bows FD curve (force draw)

 

[freemoyoyo]

Probably a bit of both to be honest, my heads starting to get a bit baffled by it all....

 

[dwardo]

Probably a bit of both to be honest, my heads starting to get a bit baffled by it all....

Its as complicated as you want to make it mate. You can string up a stick and shoot another thinner stick from it. Or you can spend thousands on a wheelie bow with sights, stabilizers, release aids, cams and so on. Each to their own and all have their merits. Have a play dont take it too seriously and see what part of the whole game suits you. Its a very varied sport.

 

[freemoyoyo]

I'm just quite a traditional sort of bloke when it comes to things like this, i shoot a lot with air rifles and much prefer shooting spring powered rifles than compressed air, just because of the challenge. I taught my self and mastered it quite well, so would like to think i can do the same with a basic bow.

 

[Lupin Rider]

I'm just quite a traditional sort of bloke when it comes to things like this, i shoot a lot with air rifles and much prefer shooting spring powered rifles than compressed air, just because of the challenge. I taught my self and mastered it quite well, so would like to think i can do the same with a basic bow.

an that is exactly why i got into archery and shoot a longbow. only aid i have is a rubber band as a mob (mark on bow).

 

[R3XXY]

A bow is a bow at the end of the day and its all about the archer. Unless you start sticking sights, release aids, stabilisers on the thing then they are essentially the same.
So far as speed goes there is also very little difference if any between the two. It was only recently that glass bows started to hit the 200fps mark and a very well designed bow can reach 190fps so nawt in it.

This is true to a point but....



I shoot a Hoyt Carbon matrix, which is totally recoil free, has a 6x mag sight, and shoots at 300FPS and I use a release aid. So from where I'm, coming from a trad bow IS woefully inaccurate.
It's just not physically possible to shoot a one to two inch group every time at twenty yards with a longbow, there is too much variance.

Also recurve technology has come a long way in the last twenty years, with better riser design, better limbs, etc.

Having said that, good technique is still essential to shoot good scores.

Anyway I don't want to turn this thread into a bickering match, glad to hear about anyone getting into archery

 

[mountainm]

There's come a point where if you want complete accuracy you may as well get a Crossbow with a Calibrated laser sight. That's why I prefer trad (I shoot afb). It's just me and the bow. I don't use sights when I throw a ball so I'd prefer not to use them to shoot an arrow. Strip it down to basics. But horses for courses, there is a great deal of satisfaction to be had either way.

 

[Lupin Rider]

This is true to a point but....



I shoot a Hoyt Carbon matrix, which is totally recoil free, has a 6x mag sight, and shoots at 300FPS and I use a release aid. So from where I'm, coming from a trad bow IS woefully inaccurate.
It's just not physically possible to shoot a one to two inch group every time at twenty yards with a longbow, there is too much variance.

Also recurve technology has come a long way in the last twenty years, with better riser design, better limbs, etc.

Having said that, good technique is still essential to shoot good scores.

Anyway I don't want to turn this thread into a bickering match, glad to hear about anyone getting into archery

the feeling when you do shoot a one inch group with the longbow is awesome, from my perspective looking at a compound shooting consistent groups of tens and then feeling ****e as you drop one to a nine isnt as attractive. Ones seems to be about hitting the other about not missing.

Nice bow mind!

 

[boatman]

To have a MOB on a longbow seems wrong somehow. Bare bow should mean bare bow and one accepts a lower degree of accuracy perhaps although one can continuously improve. There is nothing more boring than to shoot target and to be standing next to someone who notes down the result of each shot and with which arrow. The fun is in the shooting and hitting the gold a bonus.

 

[dwardo]

This is true to a point but....



I shoot a Hoyt Carbon matrix, which is totally recoil free, has a 6x mag sight, and shoots at 300FPS and I use a release aid. So from where I'm, coming from a trad bow IS woefully inaccurate.
It's just not physically possible to shoot a one to two inch group every time at twenty yards with a longbow, there is too much variance.

Also recurve technology has come a long way in the last twenty years, with better riser design, better limbs, etc.

Having said that, good technique is still essential to shoot good scores.

Anyway I don't want to turn this thread into a bickering match, glad to hear about anyone getting into archery

No bickering from this end mate, love an archery discussion as much as the next archer and it helps de-mistily some of the myths about different bows.
Form is the key to all archery I know because mine is shocking! Your bow sounds like a right monster and I bet is very accurate.
I think what you mean by trad bows being inaccurate is the style of shooting rather than the bow its self. So no aids such as your 6x scope and release aids etc.
To those who dont know how these bows shoot so fast its all down to the arrow weight. The kind of standard that people try to judge one bow against another is a given arrow weight for a given draw weight. Speeds in excess of 200fps can be achieved with trad bows and light arrows. #

All the aids that can be used remove the need for the archer to be as consistent. A release aid does exactly what it says on the tin, removes the need for the archer to perform a nice clean loose from the fingers. Sights especially magnifying sights give you a better view of the target and a crosshair of sorts.

I used to shoot off the knuckle and have no knocking point on the string. I have recently started to use a small arrow shelf as well as a knocking point with the aim to be more accurate. So not really bare-bow any more and less traditional, but for me a little more accurate and more fun, especially as I dont have the time to practice as much as I should.

Not knocking either of the methods and all have their attractions. The bows are simply made from different materials and the modern materials are only just more accurate mainly due the the fact they are born from a computer designed form. The effect is pretty much the same at the end of the day as the designs can be roughly the same too.

The only difference I see is to go with all the add-ons or not. The same as shooting a rifle on iron sights rather than a magnifying scope. Its not to say one rifle is more accurate than the other.

 

[Lupin Rider]

To have a MOB on a longbow seems wrong somehow. Bare bow should mean bare bow and one accepts a lower degree of accuracy perhaps although one can continuously improve. There is nothing more boring than to shoot target and to be standing next to someone who notes down the result of each shot and with which arrow. The fun is in the shooting and hitting the gold a bonus.

Fair point even though gnas rules of shooting allow a thin rubber band, mark on bow or aiming aid on the ground.

the whole thing seems to me to be picking how many variables you want to play with. Barebow and wooden arrows with the multiple variables in nock, arrow rest, wood arrow spine, difficulty in matching arrows a concession to a mob is the minimum ive gone with to give a modicom of consistency to stop me getting completely frustrated.

the whole discussion gives credence to comments above that archery is as complicated as you want to make it. That makes it fantastic in my view.

my 6yr old wants a longbow now. Dwardo have you ever made a childs size one of very light draweight for pinging at a foam target?

 

[santaman2000]

....All the aids that can be used remove the need for the archer to be as consistent. A release aid does exactly what it says on the tin, removes the need for the archer to perform a nice clean loose from the fingers. Sights especially magnifying sights give you a better view of the target and a crosshair of sorts.

I used to shoot off the knuckle and have no knocking point on the string. I have recently started to use a small arrow shelf as well as a knocking point with the aim to be more accurate. So not really bare-bow any more and less traditional, but for me a little more accurate and more fun, especially as I dont have the time to practice as much as I should.......

Not as traditional with an English longbow true enough. But that said, recurves and arrow shelves and knocking points have all been around for centuries in other cultures so I don't think I'd classify them as "non-traditional" either. Just a diferent tradition.

On the other hand I agree completely abot the compounds bows, sights, arrow releases, and all "modern" aids.

 

[santaman2000]

....The only difference I see is to go with all the add-ons or not. The same as shooting a rifle on iron sights rather than a magnifying scope. Its not to say one rifle is more accurate than the other.

Very true. Indeed in WWI the Marines were shooting accurately to 1000 yards with open iron sights.

And as anyone who has ever shot both will tell, the image on the magifying sight may be larger, but so are the perceived movements of the crosshairs on the target. it still takes good shooting technique (stance and breath control) to hit consistently.

 

[santaman2000]

the feeling when you do shoot a one inch group with the longbow is awesome, from my perspective looking at a compound shooting consistent groups of tens and then feeling ****e as you drop one to a nine isnt as attractive. Ones seems to be about hitting the other about not missing.

Nice bow mind!

One's about having fun on the range; the other's about putting meat on the table.

 

[dwardo]

Fair point even though gnas rules of shooting allow a thin rubber band, mark on bow or aiming aid on the ground.

the whole thing seems to me to be picking how many variables you want to play with. Barebow and wooden arrows with the multiple variables in nock, arrow rest, wood arrow spine, difficulty in matching arrows a concession to a mob is the minimum ive gone with to give a modicom of consistency to stop me getting completely frustrated.

the whole discussion gives credence to comments above that archery is as complicated as you want to make it. That makes it fantastic in my view.

my 6yr old wants a longbow now. Dwardo have you ever made a childs size one of very light draweight for pinging at a foam target?

Its surprisingly hard to make a kids bow on purpose, rather than an adults bow that you mess up and becomes a kids bow
Scale is the key and starting off with the right dimensions. Obviously backing the bow with silk or something similar would be peace of mind.
I made a bow a while back for a lady with quite a light draw. Its half way down the page here :- http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87278&page=3&highlight=dwardo+ash+bow+light
Was about 20 lbs which is too heavy i know but the ideas there. I would start at their height and say about 3/4 inch wide at the most and tiller from there.
Will have to make a few like this my self so will have a play and let you know how i get on in the above thread.

 

[freemoyoyo]

Well i went for a walk and came back with a 7ft long piece of hazel, which is now going be or i hope its going to be my first self bow, wish me luck !

 

[Niels]

Well i went for a walk and came back with a 7ft long piece of hazel, which is now going be or i hope its going to be my first self bow, wish me luck !

I'm working on a hazel bow myself too, you do need to burn it on the belly (like until it's brown not black) otherwise it will have a lot of set.
The best of luck!

 

[dwardo]

Well i went for a walk and came back with a 7ft long piece of hazel, which is now going be or i hope its going to be my first self bow, wish me luck !

Get some pictures and dimensions up

 

[R3XXY]

Me practicing witchcraft

 

[ghound]

Good craic them compounds, very accurate