Anyone got any experience with these? Was thinking of getting one to compliment my carving axe. If anyone's got one they want to move on then even better.
GB Carpenters axe
- Thread starter heath
- Start date
robin wood
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
We had some of these in a parcel of GB's I took out to Japan last year. The carpenters axes were not used at all on the traditional carpentry project we were working on. The carving axes were used as were the broad axes. Other than that we tended to use Japanese axes http://greenwood-carving.blogspot.com/2010/08/japanese-axes-and-adzes.html
That's interesting. Can you elaborate please Robin? It's funny because your comments on the staight bladed japanese axes is one of the things that made me hink that it might be useful (just finished your book by the way, thoroughly enjoyed it).
Biker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
So Robin, did you ever get your hands on a chouna? Yeah love that finish on the table a lot too. Gotta admire those Japanese, they give most traditional tools a whole new twist of their own and the results are often better. I just love my little Dozuki saw, best investment I ever made getting one of those. Made me wonder how I ever got by without one as a carpenter joiner. Thanks to Toby for putting me onto those and giving me his spare handle.
Heath. I had a carpenter's axe with a straight blade on it. Did ok on the tasks I used it for, it was pretty much a 3½ inch chisel if you used it right but I found it spent more time on a hook than used and I got on a lot better using my tomahawk curved blade in the end for the jobs I asked of it. Sold it to Sam aka Man of Tanith (I think) in the end. Mine wasn't the GB one though, just some very old French one that I restored and rehandled.
Heath. I had a carpenter's axe with a straight blade on it. Did ok on the tasks I used it for, it was pretty much a 3½ inch chisel if you used it right but I found it spent more time on a hook than used and I got on a lot better using my tomahawk curved blade in the end for the jobs I asked of it. Sold it to Sam aka Man of Tanith (I think) in the end. Mine wasn't the GB one though, just some very old French one that I restored and rehandled.
robin wood
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Glad you enjoyed the book. I didn't spend a lot of time using the carpenters axes to be honest but nor did anyone else when you have the choice of a gorgeous old laminated forged Japanese axe you use that. They are very different tools, the Japanese axes are very thick behind edge with a lot of weight forward and you can run the bevel on the wood like a giant chisel, the GBs are much thinner. It's like the difference between a 4mm knife with a scandi grind and a 3mm with full flat and secondary bevel.
If I had the carving axe I would think the carpenters axe is not sufficiently different to see much use. The broad axe is a beauty if you are into hewing big timbers or I get use out of smaller hatchets like the wildlife too, one of those lives in my van.
Yes Biker I did get a chouna, actually I got a few
[video=youtube_share;bzGlF0kE3rU]http://youtu.be/bzGlF0kE3rU[/video]
pics here
http://greenwood-carving.blogspot.com/2011/01/japanese-woodworking-tools-axes-and.html#more
Biker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
"A few" he says... that's like saying if you fell off the Eiffel tower you'd land with a bump!
Lovely looking batch that mate, hope they serve you well.
Lovely looking batch that mate, hope they serve you well.
Thanks Robin, I guess it doesn't make much sense then. What are your thoughts on asymmetric grinds for carving axes? I read your blog about other handedness (not sure that's how you put it) when doing the course with Fritiof. i really like the right handed grind on my carving axe and find it very useful for flat planes.
robin wood
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
The very flat side axe grind the carving axe currently comes with is fine for making square timbers but for the sort of sculptural carving I normally do, spoons bowls etc I prefer a just slightly asymmetric grind. The problem with a side axe is that you can't rock out of a cut and can't do concave cuts. I have been talking with Gransfors and they are hoping to get us some prototypes with a new grind, the axe was originally designed by Wille Sundqvist with exactly this grind and changed to a side axe about 2005 and no one knows why.
If it's not too much trouble robin, would you be able to post a picture of the kind of grind you mean? It would be interesting to see as i'm currently restoring a few axe heads. Also, i have never sharpened mye carving axe as i strop it regularly and have not yet felt the need, but when the need does arrive, how would you reccommend going about it as i've only ever sharpened an axe with a convex bevel
Any news of what the current grind is on the Gransfor Carving axe - has anything changed?
Would it be difficult to regrind it as you need/prefer it -- or is the factory grind "part of the magic"?
I saw one site that offered a Gransfor axe with left, right or symmetric grind: http://www.greenwood-direct.co.uk/default.cfm/loaddoc.260
If Gransfor (or some other enterprising axe manufacturer) wanted to make a Robin Wood signature carving axe - how would you specify it? I think we can see your grind preference, above, but on your axe page, it seemed like you would like to have the option of a lighter version of the Gransfor carving axe -- or did I misunderstand?
On another thread, somebody mentioned being on a training course with Robin Wood, while Wille Sundqvist was visiting. He/she mentioned that Wille modified the handle on one participant's carving axe - anybody know the nature of the modification? Did it make much difference?
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That site actually appears to offer 5 different versions of the Gransfer Buks (GB) Carving axe:
Item 475H -with right bevel
Item 475V - with left bevel
Item 475 - double bevel
Items 475R - red beech handle & right bevel?
Item 475RV - red beech handle & left bevel?
...
Items 475/475V/475RAK
I'm still trying to get my head round what the differences are, and why.
Given all those options, I guess you need to select and order carefully...
http://www.greenwood-direct.co.uk/default.cfm/loaddoc.260 <- GB Carving axe
http://www.greenwood-direct.co.uk/default.cfm/loaddoc.264 <- GB Carving Series??
Not sure what the difference is between all these variants, but it seems to include the handle (material and finish), grind & price.
Anyone have any insights? I notice Robin Wood made an axe handle shaped just like those rather cool angular "carving series" red beech handles.
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robin wood
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
The handle is partly feel and partly aesthetics, I personally like the red beech handles but they don't make the thing work any better. Of the three grinds currently available I would favour the symmetrical double bevel one though few folk stock it that way. To me the perfect grind is mid way between that and the the current right bevel (for right hander) which is just as Wille Sundqvist originally designed it, not surprisingly. Jogge and I were both in correspondence with Gransfors last year and they were looking at doing some prototypes to send us but then it went quiet.
Good news is I am working with Mora on new hook knives though, I don't do signature anything just like to help folk get good tools available out there.
Good news is I am working with Mora on new hook knives though, I don't do signature anything just like to help folk get good tools available out there.
robin please do give an update on the new hook knife by mora, maybe the best news ive heard in a while.
Something was bothering me last night, as I'm in the process of ordering some tools. I was planning to start a new thread with the above title but this looks like a good spot to ask.
Which bevel is right?
I notice several people aren't happy with the asymmetric bevel on most GB Swedish Carving axes. I wondered if they might being buying the wrong bevel?
Bowl-makers generally prefer an outside bevel on their adze [see: jakruss adzes & David Fisher's recent post on this], so that the bevel tends to lift the tool back out of the wood towards the end of each blow, instead of burying it. It seems to me, that on carving axe that you would want similar behaviour. A right-handed spoon-maker, for example, would tend to cut the right-side of the wood. Each blow would cut into the wood but the carver would want the blade to start lifting back out of the wood towards the end of the blow (I'm thinking by a bevel on the left-hand side)*, rather than burying itself ever deeper, which could cause an uncontrolled, long straight split (although that might be exactly what you'd want if were using a side-axe to square a felled trunk).
So I guess what I'm wondering is: Should "righties" use left-hand beveled axes for carving (but right-hand bevels for hewing)?
*In Robin's words, to "rock out of a cut and ... do concave cuts"
Which bevel is right?
I notice several people aren't happy with the asymmetric bevel on most GB Swedish Carving axes. I wondered if they might being buying the wrong bevel?
Bowl-makers generally prefer an outside bevel on their adze [see: jakruss adzes & David Fisher's recent post on this], so that the bevel tends to lift the tool back out of the wood towards the end of each blow, instead of burying it. It seems to me, that on carving axe that you would want similar behaviour. A right-handed spoon-maker, for example, would tend to cut the right-side of the wood. Each blow would cut into the wood but the carver would want the blade to start lifting back out of the wood towards the end of the blow (I'm thinking by a bevel on the left-hand side)*, rather than burying itself ever deeper, which could cause an uncontrolled, long straight split (although that might be exactly what you'd want if were using a side-axe to square a felled trunk).
So I guess what I'm wondering is: Should "righties" use left-hand beveled axes for carving (but right-hand bevels for hewing)?
*In Robin's words, to "rock out of a cut and ... do concave cuts"
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Re. Bevel selection: Robin anticipated and answered my question, above
. But perhaps you/others could help sort out my "wrong headed" reasoning (above) and alleviate my concerns (my head hurts) - or am I onto something?
Great to hear that Mora are improving introducing/improving a product with Robin's input. I like my Frost/Mora knives, great value, without them, I would never have started carving.
Re. Gransfors, a lot of companies have "battened down the hatches" in order to ride out this protracted economic down turn. There is less credit available to develop new products. Although new product development is just what is required to get things growing again.
What's the point of the GB Swedish Carving axe? vs. Carpenters' axe
Yesterday evening, I decided to bite the bullet get a RH Gransfors carving axe:viking: (so that I don't have to think about it any more). I already had concerns about the price, blade thickness and the weight but if the bevel is wrong/doesn't help with carving, then what is the point of it? I'm now wondering if the Husqvarna/Whetterlings carpenters' axe (or the GBs/HKs) might be a better bet, being a little cheaper, lighter, thinner bladed with a symmetrical bevel. I probably need to do some more carving before making a significant axe investment - more doing, less thinking .
[I hope I haven't given you my headache too - but I fear I may have.]
. But perhaps you/others could help sort out my "wrong headed" reasoning (above) and alleviate my concerns (my head hurts) - or am I onto something?Great to hear that Mora are improving introducing/improving a product with Robin's input. I like my Frost/Mora knives, great value, without them, I would never have started carving.
Re. Gransfors, a lot of companies have "battened down the hatches" in order to ride out this protracted economic down turn. There is less credit available to develop new products. Although new product development is just what is required to get things growing again.
What's the point of the GB Swedish Carving axe? vs. Carpenters' axe
Yesterday evening, I decided to bite the bullet get a RH Gransfors carving axe:viking: (so that I don't have to think about it any more
). I already had concerns about the price, blade thickness and the weight but if the bevel is wrong/doesn't help with carving, then what is the point of it? I'm now wondering if the Husqvarna/Whetterlings carpenters' axe (or the GBs/HKs) might be a better bet, being a little cheaper, lighter, thinner bladed with a symmetrical bevel. I probably need to do some more carving before making a significant axe investment - more doing, less thinking .[I hope I haven't given you my headache too
- but I fear I may have.]
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Perhaps not as outrageous a suggestion it first appears. Perhaps we're onto something. I just found this link, on Gransfor's Swedish Carving axes: http://www.woodsmithstore.co.uk/shop/Products/Tools/Axes/Carving Axes/
which says:
Robin, is it possible that you don't like the right-sided grind because you are right-handed - and might actually get on better with a left-sided grind?
(My head really hurts now.)
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I'm sure I've answered this before.
The carver is designed for carving, and it's brilliant at it. Sure it's expensive, but it will last a lifetime (and how much do some people spend on a bushcraft knife?). Yes, the blade is thick, and the axe is heavy, but this gives the axe the momentum to carry through the cut. If the bevel is wrong, do what I did and put a small, shallow bevel on the left hand side of the axe, taking it closer to the original design.
The carpenter's axes are designed to be used in dry wood, and are designed to be used as trimming tools like a knife of a chisel.
Cheers
And I would go for a symmetrical grind as first choice (they weren't available when I bought my carver), then a right-hand grind (I'm right handed). I personally wouldn't go for a left hand grind, because the 'angle of attack' of the axe would be far too obtuse.
Cheers
Cheers
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