Further knife ban

[mark wood]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this (from the No 10 website):

14 January 2008

The Prime Minister has said that anyone found carrying dangerous weapons such as knives should expect to be prosecuted rather than cautioned.

In an interview with The Sun newspaper, Mr Brown said carrying knives or guns was "completely unacceptable'' and that those caught by police should expect a "zero-tolerance" approach.

The PM said:

"We have to send out a message and reinforce it with action. It is completely unacceptable to carry a knife or a gun. Where police have previously been cautioning people, there now has to be a presumption of prosecution.''

The crackdown will be extended from London to other knife-crime hotspots - to be determined by the police working closely with Ministers. More measures will be outlined in a Violent Crime Action Plan to be unveiled next month by Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, he said.

Mr Brown also expressed concern about the content of video games and said the industry had a "responsibility to society" when depicting violent material to be viewed by young people. Another area of concern is the availability of blades with no practical outdoor purpose, which may face a total ban, the PM said.

The PM' s comments came after a string of recent knife-related deaths, including those of teenagers Nassirudeen Osawe in Islington, north London, and Jack Large in Grange Hill.

 

[BushTucker]

I imagine they mean by " knife crime hotspots" walking down your local street with a knife, not so much carrying one in a forest, I have never met a copper in a forest yet.

 

[Scots_Charles_River]

This PM proclaimation will not apply in Scotland, different government on this devolved matter.

Nick

 

[British Red]

Thats interesting - I wasn't aware that knife legislation is devolved? Is it not in the same family as firearms legislation then?

Red

 

[British Red]

I was fascinated by SCRs note that such laws won't apply in Scotland so I did a bit of looking for my own interest

Quite right it seems! I was surprised to find out about the Scottish Parlaiment intention to licence knives in Scotland though

http://www.scottishexecutive.gov.uk/Publications/2004/12/20345/47605


Extract from Scotlands criminal justice plan from the above link

In the future we plan to <snip> Implement a five point plan of action to tackle the impact of knife crime across Scotland including introducing a licensing scheme on the sale of non-domestic knives and doubling the sentence for possession of a knife or offensive weapon from 2 years to 4 years.

Fascinating stuff

Red

 

[Bernie Garland]

I was fascinated by SCRs note that such laws won't apply in Scotland so I did a bit of looking for my own interest

Quite right it seems! I was surprised to find out about the Scottish Parlaiment intention to licence knives in Scotland though

http://www.scottishexecutive.gov.uk/Publications/2004/12/20345/47605


Extract from Scotlands criminal justice plan from the above link

In the future we plan to <snip> Implement a five point plan of action to tackle the impact of knife crime across Scotland including introducing a licensing scheme on the sale of non-domestic knives and doubling the sentence for possession of a knife or offensive weapon from 2 years to 4 years.

Fascinating stuff

Red

but you can still buy a nice 9'' carving knife from asda or tesco, and be within the law. as long as your walking about with your receipt on the day you want to stab someone,but genuine owners have to be licensed,oh well, when i go out and need a knife i'll just pop into asda or tesco's first, pick up what knife i need keep my receipt so i'm not breaking the law ,and don't need a licence !!!!

bernie

 

[Paullyfuzz]

This legislation wont apply to any one on here. If it does, then your asking for trouble

 

[jojo]

I must be thick, I think, because I really can't get my head round this one.
Criminals, by definition don't respect the law or laws. These increases in penalty, licensing or whatever won't affect them in the slightest. They will carry on regardless. If they get caught, well, that a occupational hazard, they'll do their (extended) time, at tax payers' expense of course and go out and do it again. It's a way of life and many have no intention to change.
So who are they (the so called law makers) trying to kid into believing the new laws will makes things better/safer? Not a chance.And who is getting the brunt of these laws and loose out? The people who have never broken the laws and who have no intention to brake the laws, now or in the future.
I have to say I am very tired to have to listen to the empty rethoric of all the political parties.

 

[Squidders]

The hilarious thing is this... how many people willing to murder another person in a public place will give a flying "sexual intercourse" of being prosecuted for simply carrying an offensive weapon? the nutters were happy to go down for murder, did they think 2 or 4 years (1/3 that in reality) in prison will prevent anything?

Some of the worlds best comedy writers are now working for the government(s) it seems.

And in terms of sensoring computer games, that's just insulting... we've gone from big public executions in the streets of towns to soiling ourselves over fantasy violence on a computer screen / tv. That would be ok if we weren't still designing bigger and better weapons as part of our "national defence" or the war on terror.

You know whose terrified? I am.

 

[British Red]

This legislation wont apply to any one on here. If it does, then your asking for trouble

I'm unsure to be honest Paullyfuzz its clearly a policy document from several years ago (2004 IIRC) but I can't find anything on the site that says it isn't policy any longer so I guess it must be? Its on the Scottish governments own website so I guess it must be correct.

It strikes me as a hard thing to police but I guess that it would have to work like a firearms certificate. A licence based on need and the need to be shown for each item possessed. To only be taken from a secure area to be transported to the point of use and then immediately returned? Pure speculation on my part - perhaps it would be more like a driving licence - some form of test and examination? But then you can have a "non-domestic" knife or knives of your choice?

Since it appears to be policy I guess there must have been some public consultation and proposals - perhaps SCR or some of our other Scottish members know more?

Red

 

[UKHaiku]

I agree - should be no impact on anyone here (if we're talking about the original post, as opposed to the licence thing). If you have a valid reason to carry then you'll be fine, as now... Just means that if you don't have a valid reason there's even more incentive to leave it at home...

For what it's worth, I do agree that the government is, yet again, taking the easy, media-rich way out and focussing on the tools rather than the real problems of social breakdown (which has been aided and abetted by our last few governments)....

 

[Shing]

Politicians are wasting my tax money on their fantasy laws. How are you going to define "non-domestic" how would they prove the big bowie knife I have is not used to chop down the branches of trees in my garden or the machete is not used to clear weeds?

How are they going to license all those non-domestic knives already in millions of homes if they don't know who has got them unless they enter everyone's house and search it for "non-domestic" knives. This is an utter waste of time.

 

[stotRE]

"When all the guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns."

 

[-Switch-]

I think it's a step in the right direction (albeit a very small step made by people who have no real idea of where they're going).

Instead of banning more items they're talking of more severe punishments for laws that are already in place.
The idea is sound - some people are currently disregarding the law because they have no fear of a 'slap on the wrist'. But perhaps the threat of a custodial sentence will be enough to deter at least some people from carrying knives for respect.

The group of people this proposed change of law is aimed at isn't the thugs or murderers who fully intend on causing harm - they will carry out their intentions regardless of the punishment. I think the law is aimed at people involved in the 'its cool to carry a knife' culture. You know, the kids who carry a cheap lock knife for kudos but have no proper intention of using it.

I personaly think this may reduce knife crime. Only very slightly but it may work.

 

[Bernie Garland]

I think it's a step in the right direction (albeit a very small step made by people who have no real idea of where they're going).

Instead of banning more items they're talking of more severe punishments for laws that are already in place.
The idea is sound - some people are currently disregarding the law because they have no fear of a 'slap on the wrist'. But perhaps the threat of a custodial sentence will be enough to deter at least some people from carrying knives for respect.

The group of people this proposed change of law is aimed at isn't the thugs or murderers who fully intend on causing harm - they will carry out their intentions regardless of the punishment. I think the law is aimed at people involved in the 'its cool to carry a knife' culture. You know, the kids who carry a cheap lock knife for kudos but have no proper intention of using it.

I personaly think this may reduce knife crime. Only very slightly but it may work.

what planet are you on ????

bernie

 

[-Switch-]

what planet are you on ????

bernie

Yeah, it's not my usual response to this kind of proposal I must admit, but I thought I'd stick my neck out for once and try to be the optimist.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as they're not uselessly banning more innanimate items and instead they're actually trying to deter people from committing the crimes, then that's a good thing.

The laws aren't being changed, I can still carry my sak everywhere I go and I can still use my edged tools for the hobbies I enjoy.
Increased sentences for carrying weapons don't effect me (or hopefully anyone one else on this forum) so why not? If it stops the 19 year old plastic gangsters from strutting about with a knife in their pocket, and lets the rest of us go about our usual lives, then I'm all for it.

 

[Steve R]

So who are they (the so called law makers) trying to kid into believing the new laws will makes things better/safer?

The general public.

If they make it easy to prosecute just for carrying a knife with no intention of using it illegally, then the numbers will go up and they can say "see! we are cracking down on knife crime".

The people who have never broken the laws and who have no intention to brake the laws, now or in the future.

These are the ones who will suffer to make the numbers look good.

I have to say I am very tired to have to listen to the empty rethoric of all the political parties.

Me too.


Edited to add,

Oh, I bet the next thing will be an instant fine option, but its not about the money is it?

 

[British Red]

The laws aren't being changed, I can still carry my sak everywhere I go and I can still use my edged tools for the hobbies I enjoy.
Increased sentences for carrying weapons don't effect me (or hopefully anyone one else on this forum) so why not? If it stops the 19 year old plastic gangsters from strutting about with a knife in their pocket, and lets the rest of us go about our usual lives, then I'm all for it.

Switch - in Scotland though you will need to have a licence for your SAK (presumably at a cost)!

Red

 

[Shinken]

I have never met a copper in a forest yet

Ive not seen one in the street lately either

Plenty on the roads though, usually carrying a box

 

[John Fenna]

Saw a policeman on Sunday!
He turned up one hour after I reported a major tree had fallen completely blocking the B road by our house, taking down the power and phone lines in a big blue flash, cables falling onto the verge etc.
For an hour I set up cones and stopped cars slamming into the tree (fast road, blind corners, stupid sunday drivers).
Copper turned up after the power company (who came without any cones or signs) had a look round and got back in his Range Rover and p*ssed off back to his warm dry station.
He never asked about my Saami knife with which I was harvesting firewood......my mate with a decent chainsaw bagged the big bits but says he will let me have some!
I have already used some of my knives to start carving some (more) spoons....
Round here the plod do not seem interested/have time to do much except go to RTAs or sit in lay-bys waiting for the next RTA......