Fox hunting, banned.

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Oakleaf

Full Member
Jun 6, 2004
331
1
Moray
Ginja

Nothing personal taken or implied :wave:

Interesting to hear all the various perspectives. Though in large part there still comes across this general feel of antipathy toward countryside 'types'.

To me, just goes to show how deep views run and the huning with hounds debate largely just the visible tip of the iceberg regards these issues.

Think that perhaps underpins the disquiet many Fieldsports people are feeling - that with Fox Hunting 'dealt with' attention is going to come to bear upon other topics. Already mentioned - angling likely to be the last as it is so popular.

That just illustrates my concern that we face government and legislation by perception rather than logic/ fact etc. Arguable if we got good law. But experience shows that legislation of this type tends to be poorly drafted and a nightmare for those affected.

Worrier that I am, it concerns me that people who feel disenfranchised from the process will potentially resort to reopening the doors via means such as terrorism. OK talking extreme extrapolation, but it is the process I am trying to highlight.

In terms of the gist of this forum - Bushcraft. I think much of our area of interest runs the risk of negative perception. Something to think about.

Good debate guys. To echo Ginja, some fairly strong diametrically opposed views being expressed - but constructively and politely. Being able to communicate in such a way speaks volumes for the membership of the forum.
 

Martyn

Bushcrafter through and through
Aug 7, 2003
5,252
33
58
staffordshire
www.britishblades.com
I lived in the country till my late teens, the town since then, so have a bit of both in me. I have no problem with the killing or control of foxes, but I do believe if we have to kill, we should show respect for the life we take. To that end, terrorising an animal is fundamentally cruel IMO. No matter how fast the fox is dispatched by the dog, it's impossible to argue that the fox isn't put in fear of it's life and made to literally "run for it".

I'm glad it's been banned.
 

BorderReiver

Full Member
Mar 31, 2004
2,693
16
Norfolk U.K.
Country sports:Shooting,Hunting.Fishing,Ferreting,Coursing etc. Legal

Blood sports :Cock fighting,Dog fighting,Badger baiting etc. Illegal

Not bothered one way or the other about hunting.I am worried about the increasing errosion of the country way of life by mainly city dwelling MPs.

One actually mentioned that most of the countryside was used by farming which only added a very small percentage to the GNP.i.e stuff the countryside and build something profitable on it.

The recent farce in parliament is just a symptom of the rot that is setting in.
 

Kath

Native
Feb 13, 2004
1,397
0
BorderReiver said:
One actually mentioned that most of the countryside was used by farming which only added a very small percentage to the GNP.i.e stuff the countryside and build something profitable on it.
These islands are going to be just one sprawling great city before long ... :-(
 

ChrisKavanaugh

Need to contact Admin...
I have followed this issue, both as a horseman and hunter-firearm owner. As an outsider, the only input I have is this:many pursuits accept or overlook many cruel, unjust and often patently illegal aspects. I just returned from a public gunshow. I sold my SMLE rifles. Everybody was celebrating the lapse of the 10 year ban on certain 'assault rifles.' I became very unpopular when I reminded people of full auto conversion kits that danced around the law and the whole Rambo paranoid subculture that came part and parcel with every armalite, uzi and MAC-10 sold. We did it to ourselves. I almost bought a lovely Martini action .300 rook rifle made by Westly- Richards that same day. But, I was so disheartened by the show I passed. An american gunshow is a dizzying affair; everything from flintlock rifles to best grade british shotguns, Colt Peacemakers, Mosin-Nagant sniper rifles and thats only the fireams themselves. The buzzing sound of stale Bush vs kerry slogans,smell of the obligatory smoked buffalo jerky, hurtfull and bigoted bumperstickers and people walking about in period uniforms faded to a deafening silence. These people just didn't get it, never would and someday this could all be gone.I will make this one point- Is Bushcraft immune from this hubris?
 

alick

Settler
Aug 29, 2003
632
0
Northwich, Cheshire
I see all such decisions as fundamentally political.

As someone brought up on the edge of the lake district, my first sights of foxhunting with dogs didn't include a single horse and a lot of cold wet countryfolk slogging up and down hills to get rid of a pest - hardly glamorous. On the other hand I have friends and family who I 've heard curse the hunt in the new forest for tresspass, damage and wanton disregard of other's property. I see foxhunting on horseback rather than with dogs as a pure bloodsport and have no empathy with it at all.

On the other hand, I also think that we are totally overburdened with legislation and too many people think they have the right to meddle in the lives of others. For that reason and the very different lake district perspective, I've always been anti ban.

As far as politics are concerned, we get what we deserve. Until a majority of us decide that we won't tolerate the appalling standards of current party politics and actually get involved, we'll have to live with it !
 

Simon

Nomad
Jul 22, 2004
360
0
59
Addington, Surrey
Kath said:
These islands are going to be just one sprawling great city before long ... :-(
Damn right too ... if Foxes are a pest we need to count their numbers ... and i bet it doesn't even come close to 1% of the number of this countries biggest pest ..... that builds it's concrete houses ....... and leaves tarmac trails 40ft across that scar the country side ........ if we aren't going to hunt foxes ...... then we should substitute it for hunting people ..... perhaps we should start with the ones that used to hunt foxes ... see how they like their own medicine ... for I can't see how they have any other use ;)
 

mr dazzler

Native
Aug 28, 2004
1,722
83
uk
Partly correct I would say IMO
Swathes of semi-urban/semi-"rural" housing estates close to the call centres where most will be working, 'close to good road systems', 'within reach of urban centres & retail parks'. A good example being built now is at Stowmrket in Suufolk. Smaller number of super-rich fortress type "developements" (fenced in like an iron age ring-fort :roll: ) for those with more brass. Traditional old villages taken over by stockbrokers/bankers/health authority managers, "media" and "sports" personalities taking over castles and country seats (or would the police chiefs and top civil servants get them??) More cctv even in rural locations (to catch speeding fox-hunters :roll: ). What about the urban masses-oh dear-gps stun gun systems that zap you by satellite if you go where your not meant to go (ie out of your zone/ghetto) :roll: :roll: :roll:

I think its a bit simplistic to say country life is being eroded by city-dwelling MP's. Don't market forces (even before the thatcheristas took over) and changing moral and social influences have anything to do with it?? What about changing aspirations and expectations among farmers and others who live and work in the countryside?? A younger generation that is not willing to put up with the hardships endured by their parents or grandparents?? The demands of a technology based capitalistic culture, mass production consumerism, global-village-people syndrome?? European centralisation?? If 90% of the population is urbanised, then surely most of their mp's will have an urban outlook. At one time I believe 90% of the population worked the land.
Its intresting to see how people on this thread are trying to repect different opinions. That should be one of the greatest things about our country that other nations envy. But then as we've seen from the way modern govts operate they intent on removing freedoms that present a threat (ones that promote self reliance) and legitimising new ones that promote ("state dependence") by suppressing genuine debate under a smokescreen of spin (telling lies convincingly).

MR D :wink:
 

Lurch

Native
Aug 9, 2004
1,879
8
52
Cumberland
www.lakelandbushcraft.co.uk
Mr Dazzler, your analogy with miners is still tenuous at best. People hunting with hounds did not cause the pits to close and they did not make coal mining illegal. Coal mining simply became uneconomic and the government of the day chose to stop subsidising coal production and I suspect that this would have been forced upon us by the EU at some stage anyway.
How people manage to make a link between coal mining remains a mystery of twisted logic and bizarre communist logic.
 

Adi007

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 3, 2003
4,080
0
Just a friendly reminder from your friendly moderator to keep this thread on the topic of banning hunting with dogs. Communism and coal mining don't really factor in to the debate.

Thanks!
 

mr dazzler

Native
Aug 28, 2004
1,722
83
uk
I reckon its tenuous Lurch, cos you want it to be so.
Just cos I don't like thatcherism don't make me a commie -thats just simple tit for tat, them and us thinking.
Talking of twisted logic-thats what's been used for a long time to justify fox abuse. I'm glad its been banned, but also troubled about how the ban was brought about.
As far as I know I never said hunters with hounds closed the pits, or made mining illegal. Must've been someone else.
Anyway, I don't want to get into some ugly slagging match mate; if our view of recent history differs-so what. Just leave it at that -agree to disagree, is that ok? :wink:
 

mr dazzler

Native
Aug 28, 2004
1,722
83
uk
ADI007 -Should I let you know what I intend to include in a post first and see if it meets with your aproval? Whats worrying you? :?:
What exactly does factor into the debate, in your opinion ?
I was and am talking about ban of hunting with dogs and trying to see it in a wider cultural context.
No offense
Mr D :wink:
 

Paganwolf

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 26, 2004
2,330
2
53
Essex, Uk
www.WoodlifeTrails.com
Er its d debate lads :shock: we're one big happy family :wink: we've all opinions but as you know opinions are like, every ones got one but you dont realy want it shoved in your face all the time now do you :wink: :You_Rock_
 

Adi007

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 3, 2003
4,080
0
mr dazzler said:
ADI007 -Should I let you know what I intend to include in a post first and see if it meets with your aproval? Whats worrying you? :?:
What exactly does factor into the debate, in your opinion ?
I was and am talking about ban of hunting with dogs and trying to see it in a wider cultural context.
No offense
Mr D :wink:
Bottom line, what worries me is the thread degrading into a slanging match. Opinions are great but let's not allow them to get personal and get in the way of the friendly nature of the forum.

If I could list what was and wasn't acceptable I would but I really can't ... but I can see when I think the wheels might come off!

Keep it friendly and upbeat and I'll be happy. If you have really stong views or issues, remember that you aren't going to change anything by voicing your opinions on BCUK ... but your MP, Euro MP, PM etc would really love to hear what you have to say!

I'll retire to the side once more and let the optinions flow again.
 

mr dazzler

Native
Aug 28, 2004
1,722
83
uk
Do you really think so (about mp's)?? For your information I wasn't the one to start getting personal sorry if I upset anyone
 
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