Footwear

[Nyayo]

I'm contemplating a new Summer 'makes' project - some moccasins/veltskoen/saxon shoes to replace my current (heavy, crampon-compatible) mountain boots. Has anybody tried this? What leather would you recommend (I'm thinking of goatskin - cheaper, and tougher)? Soft soles or hard soles?

Thanks in advance

N

 

[running bare]

i have no experience of this but imho i would go for 8mm thick soles ( 2 layers of 4mm leather) as i think they would be harder wearing the uppers you could make out of softer leather. it all depends on what terrain you'll be using them in. i suppose. hope you get a more knowledgable answer to your quest

 

[Nemisis]

Have you thought about grip and traction? Maybe something like old mountain bike tyres glued and stitched to the outer sole? At the heel and toe this could be slightly extended to give a toe buffer and traction at the heel when walking downhill. Remove the tyre side walls with a sharp knife leaving just the tread
Dave.

 

[pierre girard]

I've used moggasins in the woods for many years. When I first started making them, I thought a heavier leather would be better. It is not. I generally make them out of thin moose hide, as it doesn't stretch like deer hide, though deer hide is plenty thick. Try to get leather that is rough on both sides (no grain).

Traction: Moggasins have much better traction than you'd think - especially on a rocky surface. In mud you might have to learn how to walk. Trick is to wear them very tight. When constructing them, make them tight as possible (not for comfort). They will stretch out. Make the rear in such a way as it can be easily re-stitched for a tighter fit - once they stretch.

Do not try to make the sole thicker or use a double sole. If you like, use a felt insole. Mocs are most often worn out from the inside (by your feet). The tighter they are (like a sock) the less likely they are to wear out in a hurry. Mocs are not like shoes. Forget any preconceived notions you have about footwear when going to a moggasin.

When I'm out in the woods, I take three pair, two tight, one loose. I wear the loose pair to bed at night.

Here are some winter mocs:

Here is the only photo I have handy of a summer moc:

 

[Buckshot]

I made these over a year ago.
I used oil tanned cow hide.
Really easy to do and very comfy as well.
The only problem I have with traction is on muddy ground, as PG says you have to learn how to walk
I covered the lower half with McNutts Freesole - it's like a contact adhesive but is designed to men splits in soles. It makes them more water proof and I also wear a pair of water proof socks as well.
I use these when I go deer stalking in spring/ summer/ autumn.
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17&cat=500&ppuser=300

I'm currently measuring and planning for another pair, a lower leg design. I'll post some pictures when they're finished.

Cheers

Mark

 

[leon-1]

I made these over a year ago.
I used oil tanned cow hide.
Really easy to do and very comfy as well.
The only problem I have with traction is on muddy ground, as PG says you have to learn how to walk
I covered the lower half with McNutts Freesole - it's like a contact adhesive but is designed to men splits in soles. It makes them more water proof and I also wear a pair of water proof socks as well.
I use these when I go deer stalking in spring/ summer/ autumn.
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17&cat=500&ppuser=300

I'm currently measuring and planning for another pair, a lower leg design. I'll post some pictures when they're finished.

Cheers

Mark

I think you meant McNett Freesole Mark

The McNett Freesole idea I knicked off Mark as well it works pretty well.

As far as the sole is concerned it will depend on how the moccasins are put together, if the sole is enclosed like they are on the Keltoi Moccasin you will need a flexible sole and make it from the same material or something just sligthly heavier than the rest of the mocc as they are stitched together when they are inside out. Imagine trying to turn it the right way out if the soles were two layers of 4mm thick leather.

For plains style Moccasins they tend to use things like rawhide which are more rigid / tougher.

My next set is going to be made from Moose hide, but my previous set was made from chrome tanned deerskin, which is great for the the great outdoors, pottering around the house and stalking in woodland, but it is rather punishing on the moccs if you use them on concrete or asphalt.

 

[Buckshot]

I think you meant McNett Freesole Mark

Yeah OK , I thought I did pretty well to remember that much off the top of my head

 

[leon-1]

Must admit I had wondered what type of leather you had made them from, that's handy to know

 

[Buckshot]

I wanted soft leather that would stay fairly soft.
As it's oil tanned it doesn't wet form like veg tanned does.

What's the advantages/differences of a Keltio mocc compared to mine?

Cheers

Mark

 

[Templar]

Hi Nyayo & every one else.
Im a Veldtskone user I have a pair with 5mm thick leather sole which are great here, they have hard (read stiff) style soles as I have alot of thorns (prikley Acacia) here, but use Soft sole mocs for deer stalking and the like, I put some 1/4 inch soft felt in to save my feet from stones and the like.

I cant remember where I got it from but I have a "recipe" for making a softish, water proof and slip resistant outer coating for use on mocs and the like, if i remember rightly its called sludge or goo or something like that, its made from shoemakers cement and pulverised tyre rubber, if any one is interested let me know and I will try to find it and put it up, somehow...

Karl

 

[leon-1]

I wanted soft leather that would stay fairly soft.
As it's oil tanned it doesn't wet form like veg tanned does.

What's the advantages/differences of a Keltio mocc compared to mine?

Cheers

Mark

There is not a great deal of difference to be honest Mark, the lower boot section of yours is on peice and then attaches to the upper leg part from what I can see. The Keltoi the sides are one piece and they have a vamp band around the front.

I have since modded the Keltoi pattern so that the sides and vamp band are all one piece (less stitching so less chance of water ingress). When I made that set I hadn't made up my mind on how to lace them, in the end I used a design that looks similair to the loops on an old set of desert boots that I have, this way they get warn and not the uppers of the moccasin, worst comes to the worst I just replace the loops and I don't have to go through trying to fix where a lace has pulled through the leather itself.

On the next set that I made the same loop system is used however it is sandwiched in between the part that forms the tongue of the mocc and its sides.

 

[pierre girard]

My next set is going to be made from Moose hide, but my previous set was made from chrome tanned deerskin, which is great for the the great outdoors, pottering around the house and stalking in woodland, but it is rather punishing on the moccs if you use them on concrete or asphalt.

Good point: If you want your moggasins to last - NEVER walk on asphalt or concrete.

One thing about making moggasins - or any other Native American craft. If you can find out exactly how the Native Americans made them - and do it exactly the same way - you will end up with the very best product.

 

[Buckshot]

PG I notice you use the term 'moggasins' where as we use 'moccasins'.
Is there a difference in make/ pattern or is it just regional differences?

Leon - it sounds like your modded Keltio pattern is very similar to mine then?

Mark

 

[leon-1]

Mark this is what the modded version turns out with the loops / eyes for the laces

The only stitching involved is the spine, the tongue + upper and the sole, this set is only ankle height as you can see, but you could probably make them as high as you wanted as long as you took enough measurements.

What I really need is some sinew and somewhere to get some decent leather or hides laces.

 

[Buckshot]

OK, so the sole of your moccs are seperate to the sides - even around the toes.
My pattern the sole is joined to the upper just below ankle height.
I suppose your style is more ecconomical on leather as when the soles wear out a smaller piece is needed to replace it. Mine perhaps involves less stitching...

 

[Nyayo]

Wow! Lots of ideas here - not sure where I'm going to get hold of a Moose, though... I used to have some excellent Veldskoen made from Kudu skin, but they wore out (too many River crossings?). I'm using a pattern from 'Wildwood Wisdom' - Ellsworth Jaeger, 1945.

N

 

[leon-1]

Wow! Lots of ideas here - not sure where I'm going to get hold of a Moose, though... I used to have some excellent Veldskoen made from Kudu skin, but they wore out (too many River crossings?). I'm using a pattern from 'Wildwood Wisdom' - Ellsworth Jaeger, 1945.

N

Great book, look on ebay for different bits, I have just been in touch with the leather guy and will let you know what they are like to deal with once I have placed an order.

Here is a link, it may be worth having a look at thier selection of hides, I know I have been.

 

[Nemisis]

I know where theres an unused moose skin in abes freezer still lol
Dave.

 

[Buckshot]

What I really need is some sinew and somewhere to get some decent leather or hides laces.

I got some braided sinew from Pearce Tandy. It will easily unplat to make thinner thread as well.
The laces I have are 1/4 inch latego lace again from PT. Quite stiff to start with but are starting to give now.

Mark

 

[leon-1]

I got some braided sinew from Pearce Tandy. It will easily unplat to make thinner thread as well.
The laces I have are 1/4 inch latego lace again from PT. Quite stiff to start with but are starting to give now.

Mark

Thanks Mark, I will look into that