Food prices set to rise BBC news

[santaman2000]

The dustbowl soil blew across farms right across the country, it even reached Washington. Where the Plain folks farmed, their fences caught the soils. Their farming practices didn't destroy their topsoil structure. They added moisture retaining organic matter to the soil. They didn't use tractors and other heavy machinery which wrecked the soil stability, they used horses, which add their own manure to the entire process.
Incidentally the Amish, Menonite and others are quite happy being pioneer farmers, they had, and have farms right across the USA.
Like the rest they suffered, but their practices were used as models for those who later successfully farmed those acres of 'dustbowl'.

The plains were deep rooted grasslands, and those roots held the soil together when the weather and climate both turned hot and dry.

Temperature change as the climate fluctuates is a natural part of the cycle. Whether humanity chooses to be reactive enough, quickly enough, is another matter.

cheers,
Toddy

Yes the topsoil did indeed blow all the way TOO Washington and New York but that was not the "Dust Bowl" The Dust Bowl only refers to where it blew FROM, The Great Plains. The topsoil that blew onto the areas in the East was little more than an inconveniece; it was the areas in the prairies themselves that were seriously affected. Both by the health hazards of the huge choking clouds and the failed farms. Back when it occurred many farmers were still using horses; that wasn't a relevant issue. Ploughing by any means dug up the grasslands and destroyed the root system you mentioned.

As to the Amish adding "organic material" everyone did so at the time. Synthetic fertilizer was not even discovered (accidentally discovered at that) until after WWII. The nitrate based synthetics used today were accidentally discovered when someone noticed that the vegetation was greener beside the railroad tracks where the nitrates (being shipped for wartime explosives manufacture) consistently spilled from the rail cars along the track.

Yes the Amish were and are scattered around the entire country BUT!! By and large that was marginal. They were and are concentrated mostly in Pennsylvania and Ohio. They have have settlements in Colorado and Tennessee as well but never did "spread" as such. They were and remain a clustered people who farm in small farming communities rather than completely independently. If we had a "homesteading" sub forum they would make a fascinating thread on their own.

The Menonites (here at least) are not insistent on using horses. Their farms utilize some of the most modern machinery.

Outside the Great Plains ALL farmers continued with no problems throughout the "Dust Bowl" era. In fact that era coincides with the Great Depression and farming communities (apart fro the Plains farms) actually faired much better than urban areas. My parents lived in just such rural communities at the time. Money was short due to the depression but food was was plentiful. even at the height of the depression in farm areas (large or small farms; horse powered or tractor powered)

 

[shaman717]

The signs speak to us. The time is perhaps indicating that we could interact to make a difference. Bushcrafters are mainly people who respect nature and as such surely we have a vital role to interact in.

My own travels around varies places indicate that the truly aware and awakened folk are getting on with matters, being part of the solution. The more reliance we have on the media and the way it conditions and placates us, we will live in fear.

Another point, would other Bushcrafter's be interested in the possibility of community living and self sufficiency? If so please do let me know.

 

[locum76]

I've just been listening to some Woody Guthrie. Pretty Boy Floyd to be precise, it seemed kind of relevent to this.

 

[British Red]

Interesting thread.....could be lifted from a survival forum

 

[Toddy]

Santaman the farming on the prairies was adjusted enormously after the dustbowl....sorry if that term is too uncritical for you, but that's what the rest of the world calls it. Now there's a Chinese version too.
The adjustments didn't continue in the vein of the plain folks for long though; biannual cropping, low ploughing, etc.; now the plains farmers rely on the waters drawn from the ice age filled aquifer, and it's not being refilled.
Again, lessons aren't learned.

The Plain Folks (easier than remembering the different names and their assorted religious schisms just to call them by their own reference) mostly still farm within the contraints of an economy that could survive without oil, and can still thrive. Their farming communities weathered the dustbowl better than any other group did. Even if they weren't significant population numbers it was noted at the time, and afterwards, that their methods were doing just enough better to be worth considering.

One has to wonder how well modern farming techniques will 'weather' the next weather change ?

cheers,
Toddy

 

[locum76]

Interesting thread.....could be lifted from a survival forum

...or a sufficiency forum, it all fades to beige eventually.

I like to see people eating well, whatever it's called and growing your own is one way to beat the price rises for now at least.

If food is one of the basics in Maslow's hierarchy of needs, I wonder where 'good food' falls?

 

[British Red]

Self actualisation I suspect

 

[Toddy]

How're they doing down your way BR ?
I know we're sodden wet again, but your soils looked bone dry in those field photos you posted.

I'm old school enough to believe that good food, like fresh water, good education and health care, ought to be available to all.

cheers,
M

p.s. Though I think the Danes are taking the notion too far in banning Marmite :yikes: because it has additives like folic acid in it

 

[British Red]

Had some heavy showers today - almost enough to wet the ground. Just need another two weeks like that now...!

Glad it wasn't yesterday - we were a bit busy on the food front


Greenhouse Sides Up by British Red, on Flickr


Greenhoses complete by British Red, on Flickr

A day of final fitting and bolting down and plumbing in the gutter and water butts left and then in go the plants!

Red

 

[Toddy]

Very tidy and good sizes too

I found a very cheap but sturdily effective way of acquiring greenhouse shelving.....buy the cheap polythene greenhouses for under £20 and you get enough shelving from inside to make two racks Buy three and the inner pieces make enough for five three-shelved racks and mine are strong. Easy kept and washed down, and very easy to reconfigurate if you're growing tall stuff that needs the full height of the glasshouse

cheers,
M.....who's given up trying to dodge the rain to pack the car for the weekend

 

[British Red]

We have three old poly covered greenhouses tucked away in a barn with that in mind (Tenner apiece). some genuine wide staging (ex display) and a timber work bench for a potting bench (my old reloading bench - to be replaced by a kitchen worktop offcut).

Still raining here Just saw an old farmer - he was dancing on his tractor

 

[Toddy]

Still raining here Just saw an old farmer - he was dancing on his tractor

Good mojo that

M

 

[santaman2000]

Santaman the farming on the prairies was adjusted enormously after the dustbowl....sorry if that term is too uncritical for you, but that's what the rest of the world calls it...

TBH I really don't know what you're trying to say here. Sorry.

 

[santaman2000]

...The adjustments didn't continue in the vein of the plain folks for long though; biannual cropping, low ploughing, etc.; now the plains farmers rely on the waters drawn from the ice age filled aquifer, and it's not being refilled.
Again, lessons aren't learned.

The Plain Folks (easier than remembering the different names and their assorted religious schisms just to call them by their own reference) mostly still farm within the contraints of an economy that could survive without oil, and can still thrive. Their farming communities weathered the dustbowl better than any other group did. Even if they weren't significant population numbers it was noted at the time, and afterwards, that their methods were doing just enough better to be worth considering.

One has to wonder how well modern farming techniques will 'weather' the next weather change ?

cheers,
Toddy

There's a lot to be said for the way the Amish farm. My own Uncle continued to use his horse for the kitchen gardens (several acres when totaled from various smaller plots) until he finally grew to old in the late 1990s.

The reason I disagree as to their influence on what happened on the prairie though is twofold:
1st there simply weren't any significant number of them there as previously stated
2nd is the economic reason; the plains/prairies have always been farmed as a commercial venture and unfortunately that is only economicaly viable with machinery. BTW you're quite right about the current method depleting the aquifer.

I'm not at all disagreeing with your opinions about what is happening now; in fact we're in almost total agreement there. And I think an agreement on a mutual admiration of the Amish lifestyle. My disagreements were confined to the historical and geographical matters such as where the Dust Bowl was and who was involved.

 

[locum76]

Good mojo that

M

Yeah, I can empathise.

 

[santaman2000]

Had some heavy showers today - almost enough to wet the ground. Just need another two weeks like that now...!

Glad it wasn't yesterday - we were a bit busy on the food front


Greenhouse Sides Up by British Red, on Flickr


Greenhoses complete by British Red, on Flickr

A day of final fitting and bolting down and plumbing in the gutter and water butts left and then in go the plants!

Red

Looking good. I've got to move farther out in the country.

 

[Eric_Methven]

Here's my veg garden.

Val taking a rest. The spuds are in and the beetroot are coming along in old plastic coffee cups.

This was a couple of days ago. The spuds are through and everything else is doing fine.

Home grown veg is way better tasting. Also you know what you have put on the soil.
Ours is only a small garden, but it's enough for the two of us. We still have a freezer full of cabbage and turnip from last year.

Eric

 

[British Red]

Sent Val don't here Eric? I have another half acre to dig over

 

[santaman2000]

Speaking of turnips when I was in the UK in the 1980s everybody ate only the roots. Is that still the case or does anyone eat the greens now?
Red I may have asked before but do you have any strawberries planted?

 

[Toddy]

Santaman I suspect our confusion is a similar language base but a different interpretation.
The dustbowl was of the American plains; the dust reached Washington.
The Plain folk population in all areas, even those on the so called dustbowl managed better than the rest of the population.

Have I made myself clear now ?

There are three versions of English at play here. I'm writing English, but thinking in Scots and talking to (among others) an American

Looking good Eric
I can't grow decent root crops in my garden, the damned slugs are a nightmare. We even have the little keeled slugs that actually live in, not on, the soil
Just too damned wet.

I get great fruit though and loads of woodland herbage stuffs. Further round, nearer the river where the houses and trees aren't so close, there used to be tomato nurseries. The imported water bomb tomatoes put them out of business though. The commercial ones, even those vine ripened, don't have a fraction of the taste or appeal of the ones grown locally.

cheers,
Toddy