Fire steel belt buckle

[Eric_Methven]

This one has my attention too.

Only because I have a selection of Mikes oval steels (all used at the Moot) and plenty of Leather.

I have found one that I think will do the job and shaped a nail (thanks Eric) to act as cross bar.

I have to find all my leather making kit now and plan the belt out.

The leather I have is 3mm veg tan and I think if it is constructed in your typical belt set up I think that the belt itself should be heavy enough so that it will not flick up and get in the way when striking.

Well thats the theory anyway and I am sticking to it (for now).

Cheers

George

I think you might find that the belt will act like a tail and stop you being able to give the steel that little flick as you bring it down on the edge of the flint. We'll see though. Time for some experimental archaeology.

Eric

 

[Mike Ameling]

The big worry is still that hardened tool steel being too brittle to stand the stress.

Without putting any holes through the oval striker, I would approach it a little differently. I would go with a wide belt (or at least wide right by the buckle), and attach it around one of the long sides. But first I would take a short lenght of heavy wire or a bent nail looped around that side - to act as the belt tongue. Just bend a big enough loop on the end so that it can swing a little bit about that long side edge on the oval striker. Then cut a slit in the end of your belt to poke that wire/nail tongue through as you wrap it through/around the long side of the oval striker. The oval striker would now be "standing up" so to speak in orientation to your body. A couple holes punched through the end of the leather belt and also where it now laps back against itself after looping through the "buckle" will work - just pass a short leather thong through them and tie. Or attach metal snaps. At the other end of the belt, leave it just as wide as the center opening of the oval striker and punch several adjustment holes. The whole belt could be left wide, but it would not be necessary. Only the ends going in/through the "buckle" would need to be wide. The rest could be narrower to fit belt loops on the pants.

Those 1/8 inch thick full carbon steel oval strikers I made still worry me about cracking/breaking from that stress. But the "kid proof" ones I have no worries about.

Yes, that attached belt would interfere with your normal flint striker "technique". Some practice would get past that, but making the buckle removable solves that.

One note on the original purpose/conditions. A number of the contest/trips/treks/courses specifically check belt buckles when they are having people remove all their usual tools. They do this because some belts and buckles have been designed with a knife blade - either folding into the buckle, or as an extension of the buckle with the end of the leather belt being the sheath. So belt buckles could be checked for to see about any "other" contriband.

And then there is that mental part. That ... cheating the rules ... part. All a matter of personal choice.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

p.s. Yes, two oval strikers looped into the end of a leather belt would act just like those double D-Ring belts. Just pass the other end through both, around the outside of one and back through the other. Pull tight, and the pressure "grips" and holds the belt in place. This works on all those nylon belts, but it also works on leather belts - if they are flexible enough.

 

[Mike Ameling]

Another possibility.

Make your buckle crossbar long enough to fit across the oval. Attach the "tongue" so that it swivels easily. Now wrap the end of your belt around that crossbar, with the tongue poking through the slit in it. Rivet, lash, or stitch the belt end together around that crossbar. Punch adjustment holes in the other end of your belt. Now to "use" it with that oval striker - without permanently attaching it to the striker:

Pass the end of the belt through the oval so the crossbar is on the other side. Now turn the whole belt and pull it back until the crossbar is resting against the oval striker. Now use it like a regular belt buckle. When your "buckle" it around you, you can tuck the loose end back through the oval and along the rest of the belt, or just pass it over the top and along the rest of the belt. Of course, a leather loop around that belt does a lot to help control that loose end from flopping about.

You will have to be careful that the "buckle" doesn't fall off the end of the belt when it is not held in place by the pressure of use. And that any movement doesn't ... twist ... the oval enough that the crossbar doesn't pop back through the center of the oval. Pressure on the belt should hold it in place, but might not and the oval could pop off. Not passing the loose end of the belt back through the oval, but just running it over it and then through the leather loop on the rest of the belt would help keep you from possibly loosing it.

Just another possibility.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

- who's brain now seemsed to have kicked into gear, and I probably won't be able to sleep much

 

[Gailainne]

......One note on the original purpose/conditions. A number of the contest/trips/treks/courses specifically check belt buckles when they are having people remove all their usual tools. They do this because some belts and buckles have been designed with a knife blade - either folding into the buckle, or as an extension of the buckle with the end of the leather belt being the sheath. So belt buckles could be checked for to see about any "other" contriband.

And then there is that mental part. That ... cheating the rules ... part. All a matter of personal choice.......

Appologies if I gave the impression that I was trying to achieve an unfair advantage on a course, not my style. Its more a piece of kit in everyday use, but will be there if you need it.

Stephen

 

[Mike Ameling]

Appologies if I gave the impression that I was trying to achieve an unfair advantage on a course, not my style. Its more a piece of kit in everyday use, but will be there if you need it.

Stephen

No problem. Just a cautionary note to those who might have considered the option.

It does remind me of something similar that happened on that Hollyweird TV show Survivor a couple years ago. The one gentleman used the magnifying portion of his by-focal eyeglasses to start a fire. Some people viewed that as "cheating", others saw it as "improvising". But they could hardly take his normal eyeglasses away from him. But nobody ever questioned one of the "contestants" using their bootlace to make a bow drill. Funny how that "perspective" works.

In the end, it is personal knowledge that wins out.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

p.s. During that African Survivor show, they did some personal training of all the contestants before it started - because of the extra danger involve. But they also gave each person instruction in starting a fire with a bow drill, and kept up that personal instruction/coaching until each and started a fire using that bow drill. But during the actual "show", not one of them could do it. They all didn't remember the stuff about how to MAKE a good bowdrill.

 

[Seoras]

I think you might find that the belt will act like a tail and stop you being able to give the steel that little flick as you bring it down on the edge of the flint. We'll see though. Time for some experimental archaeology.

Eric

I just attached a crossbar to my largest oval striker and looped a piece of leather I will use for the belt around it.

Tried it out with a piece of flint and charcloth and it took a spark in 3 strikes.

The weight of the belt has no effect whatsoever with the strike from what I can see.

George

 

[faca]

this is a good idea I though same and I show you another.
Put a real firesteel=flint rod in place of buckle pin I think is no a difficult DIY projet.
Now I have my DIY schedule overdue becouse I´m house moving ;-)

 

[Mike Ameling]

this is a good idea I though same and I show you another.
Put a real firesteel=flint rod in place of buckle pin I think is no a difficult DIY projet.
Now I have my DIY schedule overdue becouse I´m house moving ;-)

In theory, a good idea.

But those Ferro Cerrium rods don't have the internal strength. They will break way too easily. How much ... stress or strain ... will they take? I don't know. I never actually tried to break one just to see how much effort it took. I usually just found it broke, and wondered how that happened.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[faca]

hi you are right.
perhaps be can put a thin ferro rod inside a tube as carrier or glued to a metal shirt to improve stregh and this setup used as belt pin?

 

[Seoras]

I have put my belt together glued up minus the stitching which I will try and complete tonight.

It is a very basic affair as the crossbar on the striker is really simple. I used a piece of pliable metal rod hammered and viced into shape. If I make another I will spend time experimenting with a neater crossbar.

Does it do the job? Well it keeps my trousers up and my paunch neatly tucked in and when using the striker the belt has no adverse effect to the striking action.

Will try and post a picture soon.

George

 

[Mike Ameling]

Well, I just had to do a bit of ... tinkering ... this evening. And here is the results.

I took one smaller "kid proof" oval, made a simple tongue for it out of heavy wire, cut a strip of leather, put a slit and a few holes in the end, and assembled it as a belt and buckle. A ... quick ... no-stitch belt.

It actually works pretty good. I do still need to add an extra leather loop to tuck the very end of the belt in during use - so that it doesn't flop around. It tucked into one of the belt loops on my pants, but you can't rely on that all the time.

Interesting project.

When I used it to strike sparks, I did not remove the leather belt. But I did have to wrap the extra leather around my arm to "control" it while striking sparks. Otherwise it flopped about way too much.

And I still worry about using a regular oval striker. Those are only 1/8 inch thick, and I always heat treat them HARD to strike sparks well. But that makes them much more brittle. I think they might be too likely to crack/break from stress in use. This one is 2 5/8 inches tall by 1 1/4 inches wide and 5/32 inches thick. The belt is aroung 1 5/8 inches wide.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

How it looks "buckled up".

And the inside look

 

[Seoras]

Nice one Mike.

I take it the leather you are using is quite soft/supple?

The leather I used for my belt is quite stiff so when striking the steel it does not interfere with the motion. I used one of your larger oval strikers.

I will try and post up a picture tonight of the belt I finished last night.

George

 

[spamel]

Thre isn't a need for a pin if you think about it. You could have a simple ring and if you have enough belt left, you poke it through the loop and make a half hitch around the other side of the belt. In this way, you could make the ring removable by using poppers, just like the belts with changeable buckles. It'd need to be quite soft leather though, and not 2 inches wide!

 

[Gailainne]

Great to see you tinkering with the idea Mike, theres been some interesting comments and suggestions.

One thing I was surprised with (dont know why) was the width of the oval, or rather the oval hole, I thought it would have been bigger, perhaps because I assumed your fingers would fit inside, shrug, but it gave me a mental picture of how the buckle would look, which is why I suggested drilling 2 holes at the widest section, but I can see from the pics you posted there isnt enough room for the leather to fit 4 times, 2 for the loop around the crossbar, and the belt fitting over the tongue.

Another suggestion

Perhaps a wide "D" would be the way to go, the straight bar would be the crossbar, and the curved section would be wide and thick enough to prevent cracking, also being the stricker, what do you think ?

BTW Please tell me to "lighten up", If I'm pushing you, I get this way at work sometimes , tunnel vision and forget there are people "with feelings" involved.

Kindest Regards

Stephen

 

[Seoras]

Here is my prototype.

I wore it today and it was comfy. I thought the buckle would dig into me but it was fine.

Hopefully if I make another one I will be able to get a striker that is not as tall but just as wide.

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The leather is heavy enough so that when using the buckle/striker it does not get in the way.

George

 

[Mike Ameling]

Nice way to attach a crossbar - without drilling/riveting. And the "stress" would be less with that configuration.

The way I did it was more like the common D buckle - where the leather is wrapped around one side of the whole buckle.

Oval strikers can be made in a number of sizes. It's all a matter of what you want to make. I tend to make them in "historical" sizes - based on originals from the 1700's and 1800's. So my main production one is 3 inches tall by 1 1/2 inches wide, and 1/8 inch thick - per so many originals that were found around the Great Lakes fur trade area. But some were only 1/16 inch thick, or 1/32 inch thick, or even THINNER! Wow. Talk about building in some ... planned obsolecense.

So an oval striker could be sized down smaller - like with a 1 inch long center opening. Or one could be shaped more like a D, but I haven't seen any originals like that. And a major concern is making sure you have a long enough striking surface - that is not curved too much. There are some original fur trade records of complaints about a few batches of Oval strikers - that they were too ... rounded, and hard to use to strike sparks. So the more "curve" you have on the striking surface, the harder it is to strike sparks. A concern to keep in mind.

This has been an interesting little project to "tinker" with. But it's not very "historically" orientated - which is my primary focus.

Fun stuff.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands