Fire Pistons

[Ogri the trog]

Hi Everybody,
I'm a sucker for trying to make my own kit, the most recent of which is a fire piston.
Has anyone else made a working example?
I've got an 8mm polished bore, piece of tubing and had (did you notice that) until recently an 8mm dowell from a wooden arrow. The seal was so good that the wood stuck inside the tube and now I need to drill it out or make another I gave up on trying to make a wooden cylinder as I couldn't think of a way of polishing the internal bore, being so small.
If you've made a working model, can you point me in the direction of sucess.

Once I get it cracked, I'll post up here what I used.

TIA

Ogri the trog

 

[Ogri the trog]

C'mon, someone must know something about these.
As an update, a slight modification earlier today managed a glowing ember A work collegue asked what I was doing and got really interested when I told him. I ended with three good embers but since then have not been able to replicate any more

It must be the state of the tinder but I haven't fathomed out what the secret is yet.

Ogri the trog

 

[Goose]

There has been a link about buying them i seem to remember, I think they used some form of gasket, but keep us informed I would like to have a go at that too.
Got to be better than the @***@* bow drill

 

[Ogri the trog]

Thanks Goose
I have seen them for sale, but for an item that used to be very commonplace, I think they're very expensive. I have no doubt that bought ones will be of superb quality, but as I said at the beginning - I like to make my own!

I found that I couldn't drill a hole of the necessary surface finish, even in plastic. So I improvised, Drilled a larger diameter hole and used a few inches of commercial airline inside the blind hole.
I turned a piece of aluminium (favoured for now over wood as it is stronger) to fit inside with a waisted section for an O-ring seal and an open cup at the business end.
The compression was OK but not stunning so I fitted a cut down pneumatic blank inside the bore to give it a flat bottom. This was the state that gave me the embers, but, as mentioned - nothing since. I'm using char cloth by the way - if anyone knows where, or has a supply of tinder fungus, please let me know.

The reason that I want to make one, is that being an aged biker - my knees are shot to pieces - and kneeling to use a bow drill is abject agony. Hence, anything to save my knees for another use is more than welcome.

Have a go Goose, there's plenty of info on the web. The ones made out of PVC hose and wooden dowel look to be simplicity itself (famous last words).

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[Bardster]

All the ones I have seen commercially seem to have some kind of string wrapped around the barrel to provide the gasket.

 

[Stuart]

I would suggest making the shaft of a slightly narrower diameter to stop it binding and work on a seal (possibly leather?) to prevent the escape of the air around the shaft.

the tinder is critical is fire pistons charcloth works well though and there is lots of information achived here on how to make it

 

[Lithril]

I know the ones that you buy commercially have thread gasket, think its slightly greased. If you do manage to free it, sand a fraction off and then try binding some cotton or simlar to the bottom.

 

[innocent bystander]

Yeah, it's string wrapped around, and beesway/tallow for the lube. I have tried vaseline as the lube and it worked, but i think it may be too greasy. Unfortunately the string has slipped now, so the seal isn't there anymore. More work to do on it me thinks...

 

[leon-1]

I have only seen them and never tried one, but a fair few are made from buffalo horn which can be very highly polished.

I would suggest that when making one bore out a hole of the same diameter as the dowelling that you intend to use, but use wet and dry inside the hole that you have bored out to make it nice and smooth/polished.

This will mean that you will probably end up with about a 0.5mm difference between the dowelling and the walls of the chamber. Then you can either slightly recess a grove into the dowelling and bind the string onto it or cut a peice of leather soak it and stretch it over the dowelling (when it dries it will shrink fit). once that has ben done wax the string or leather washer and this is what will make your seal.

Hopefully this should provide a tight enough seal, as I say, I have not got one or used one, Stuart could probably tell you if the theory would work

 

[Ogri the trog]

Once again,
I was having a play in the warm afternoon sun and managed to get 3 or 4 good embers. Each using the same charcloth as before and each lasted about half a minute before burning out. I had two that ignited but fell out of the cup inside the cylinder, filling it with smoke but by the time they had been recovered with a metal spike, had gone out.
Does anyone know whether I should be packing the tinder cup tight or leaving some air-space - (up to now, tight helps to keep the cloth/ember in the cup whereas loose allows straggling threads to get caught in the seal, I think, causing leaks).
I'm using an aluminium shaft with an O-ring on it for the time being, with the intention of modifying to a wound gasket and wooden shaft and cylinder as and when I become proficient and aware of how each change affects the performance of the original.

I'm going to retract my earlier statement about them being expensive, for the amount of time and effort I've put in up to now trying to get mine to work, the likes of Jeff Wagner must have been sweating blood to get repeatable performance out of natural materials - I take my hat of to you.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[clcuckow]

Have you seen this thead over on BB?

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1019&page=1&pp=15

 

[Jeff Wagner]

Not as easy as it looks is it...

 

[Ogri the trog]

Not as easy as it looks is it...

Oh no Jeff's turned up - I must admit that I wan't looking forward to this moment

Jeff,
as I said before, when you started out, you must have been sweating blood to get these things to work everytime. I'm sure you'll smile at my attempts to do the same. I'm trying on borrowed equipment, with tooling that is meant for other things.
When I do finally get a result, whether it be a working model or a big pile of bits, I'll contact you for one of your fine examples.

Thanks for visiting

Ogri the trog

 

[Jeff Wagner]

Making fire pistons is a bit like flint knapping - its not so hard ....once you know how its done. There is a clearly a learning curve and I had a number of failures myself while figuring out what works and what doesn't. My first severaI working models were fashioned without benefit of power tools with the exception of an electric drill. Just for the challenge aspect, I am currently working to fabricate one using only primitive, non-metalic tools. Will let you know how it comes out.

 

[Ogri the trog]

Jeff,
You put us all to shame!

Good luck in your venture - not as though you need it.

Ogri the trog

 

[Schwert]

The workmanship of Jeff's looks just incredible. I am expecting one of his very soon as I am fairly certain I could not possibly make one that worked. When mine turns up I will let you know how it works.

 

[Jeff Wagner]

Ooops. Caught slacking again off again....better get back to the work shop. Thanks for your comments. Will do my best to make it of heirloom quality.

 

[Jeff Wagner]

the tinder is critical is fire pistons

I meant to comment on tinder previously. With a fire piston having good compression I find that a variety of natural, unproccessed tinders can be used effectively. This is one of the features of the fire piston that I find most attractive. In a woodland environment what tinder is more easily obtained than rotten punk wood for example? Once a person makes the mental adjustment from the modern world expectation of fire by instant flame to fire by coal, the advantages become apparent. I may have trouble finding suitable tinders and dry fibers to be ignited by my fire steel, but I can always find dry punk even in a rain storm.

 

[Ogri the trog]

For a moment I thought I'd cracked it again,
Had a few embers again last night and this afternoon - only to be thwarted again by repeatability issues.

I'll keep trying

Ogri the trog

 

[Jeff Wagner]

What materials are you working with?