Expedition summer 2006
- Thread starter arctic hobo
- Start date
We're going to have a run down and look in a few weeks time so I'll let you know, we should be able to make that as well.
Phew, thats the first expedition over reading the 14 pages of you guys rambling !
Anyway I'd like to come too
I am trainee Canoeing Instructor (Coach level 2 open canoe) so I can also offer some basic canoeing instruction. It would also help me, as I need to log as any coaching hours as possible. Whats more I have my own canoe, that I built myself, in true bushcraft style. Just 6 coats of varnish to go.
It Occurs to me that if there are quite a few going, it maywell be worth sourcing canoes here, and driving them along with a support vehicle ? to Norway. I think a budget of £28000 is a little excessive for such an expedition.
With regards to canoes, these will be the heaviest piece of kit to be carried, so choosing wisely would be prudent. I certainly don't relish the idea of carrying one for a number of miles ! and think you would be wise to half the distance estimate based on weight. They are seriously cumbersome out of the water. If there is access to a road for distance portages, then a trolley is probably by far the best bet. It is easier to carry a canoe on your own than in a pair.
Rucksack wise, I use a drybag with rucksack harnesses attached as standard, that can certainly carry all my bushcraft kit. Aswell as keeping it dry incase of a swim.
I am meeting up with my Canoe Guru this evening, He has paddled expeditions all over the world, is level 5 instructor and into his bushcraft and see what he can suggest (I think some arm twisting might take place
) He also has boats available for hire, but they are exceedingly heavy.
a couple of questions -
What is the longest portage - how many miles walk with a canoe !
What is the toughest/ highest portage ?
Canoeing wise you can load all the "duffel" you like and it doesn't become an issue until you have to physically carry it.
Cheers
Rich
Anyway I'd like to come too
I am trainee Canoeing Instructor (Coach level 2 open canoe) so I can also offer some basic canoeing instruction. It would also help me, as I need to log as any coaching hours as possible. Whats more I have my own canoe, that I built myself, in true bushcraft style. Just 6 coats of varnish to go.
It Occurs to me that if there are quite a few going, it maywell be worth sourcing canoes here, and driving them along with a support vehicle ? to Norway. I think a budget of £28000 is a little excessive for such an expedition.
With regards to canoes, these will be the heaviest piece of kit to be carried, so choosing wisely would be prudent. I certainly don't relish the idea of carrying one for a number of miles ! and think you would be wise to half the distance estimate based on weight. They are seriously cumbersome out of the water. If there is access to a road for distance portages, then a trolley is probably by far the best bet. It is easier to carry a canoe on your own than in a pair.
Rucksack wise, I use a drybag with rucksack harnesses attached as standard, that can certainly carry all my bushcraft kit. Aswell as keeping it dry incase of a swim.
I am meeting up with my Canoe Guru this evening, He has paddled expeditions all over the world, is level 5 instructor and into his bushcraft and see what he can suggest (I think some arm twisting might take place
) He also has boats available for hire, but they are exceedingly heavy.a couple of questions -
What is the longest portage - how many miles walk with a canoe !
What is the toughest/ highest portage ?
Canoeing wise you can load all the "duffel" you like and it doesn't become an issue until you have to physically carry it.
Cheers
Rich
The canoes are designed to be carried easily, and can have a rucksack style harness to make it easier and they are light too. Don't know if you looked at the PDF I linked about halfway through.. contains a fair bit of info. But yes naturally trolleys will be easier.
The longest portage is 59 miles, which should be easily done in four days, especially as half can be on a road. It's mostly all flat as well.
The toughest climb is above Revdal - climbing up to the level of the plateau, about 3000ft (1000m) of slopes, not scrambling but steep hillwalking. This will be the hardest part of the expedition, but we can't leave out the canoes as we'll need them to get to the climb and there's no place to leave them at the bottom for a third party to collect.
It'll be great to have you along Rich :biggthump especially with all those canoeing qualifications
The longest portage is 59 miles, which should be easily done in four days, especially as half can be on a road. It's mostly all flat as well.
The toughest climb is above Revdal - climbing up to the level of the plateau, about 3000ft (1000m) of slopes, not scrambling but steep hillwalking. This will be the hardest part of the expedition, but we can't leave out the canoes as we'll need them to get to the climb and there's no place to leave them at the bottom for a third party to collect.
It'll be great to have you along Rich :biggthump especially with all those canoeing qualifications
just a thought. What do we do if we end up with an odd number of people?
Do we just hope for an even number of odd people?
Do we just hope for an even number of odd people?
They can swim along behind 
You have a good point actually. Say 13 hopefuls it's hard to have to turn a man away just because we can't find a partner. I'd thought of having a small kayak for scouting or rescue (an experienced man in a kayak can be very much more maneuverable etc than two less experienced in a canoe).
Perhaps we'll have to sort it out when we make the final decision.
One more point in response to Rich's post: We cannot source the canoes in the UK as far as I can tell unless the supplier imports them for us. If anyone has good contacts in the canoeing world, it would be extremely helpful if they could ask if any suppliers of Bergans Ally Canoes from Norway. :biggthump
You have a good point actually. Say 13 hopefuls it's hard to have to turn a man away just because we can't find a partner. I'd thought of having a small kayak for scouting or rescue (an experienced man in a kayak can be very much more maneuverable etc than two less experienced in a canoe).
Perhaps we'll have to sort it out when we make the final decision.
One more point in response to Rich's post: We cannot source the canoes in the UK as far as I can tell unless the supplier imports them for us. If anyone has good contacts in the canoeing world, it would be extremely helpful if they could ask if any suppliers of Bergans Ally Canoes from Norway. :biggthump
The trouble with carry a canoe on your back that I still can't figure an alternative is where to put your belongings. I've had a look at the trolleys and they're defiantely a possibility depending on the terrain, lots of undergrowth or deep snow and they'd be next to useless.
Lithril said:
Don't know what you would do with the undergrowth side of life mate, but in deep snow I would load my kit into the canoe and use it as a pulk and then take turns in breaking trail with the other guy
bambodoggy
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
leon-1 said:Don't know what you would do with the undergrowth side of life mate, but in deep snow I would load my kit into the canoe and use it as a pulk and then take turns in breaking trail with the other guy
That would be easier but I don't think there'll be any snow over there when the team are going.... :?:
As far as I can tell the Bergan Ally Canoes are man portable by one person....so I think the best way around personal kit is the the team buddies up and one person carries the canoe and the other carries a bergan with both people's kit in it.....just means the team will have to travel light...but then that's the point of us being bushcrafters and not just another expedition right?
As for an odd number, Chris is right...it's a good idea to have a scout in a kayak on an unknown river (using two way radio's back to the team to warn of rappids and falls ect).... but then that throws up it's own problems of portaging a kayak....and that person's person kit. 15 to 20 miles with up to three weeks of rations, your living gear and a whole kayak to yourself isn't going to be any fun. lol....that's why I prefer canoes
):
leon-1 said:Don't know what you would do with the undergrowth side of life mate, but in deep snow I would load my kit into the canoe and use it as a pulk and then take turns in breaking trail with the other guy
Actually that was me being a bit thick, in deep undergrowth treat the canoe like a log on a military log run. Your pack goes on your back and the canoe goes on your shoulder, bearing in mind there are two of you, one front, one rear. You can use opposing shoulders, but would be better off using the same shoulder, change shoulder every now and again otherwise you will start to lose circulation in that arm. Shorter distances (over sand bars and small land bridges can be done with the canoe at arms length using climbing slings to support it).
You can cover quite large distances like this reasonably comfortably, after all a canoe is not a weighted telegraph pole, even if it is the same length. Hope this is of use.
bambodoggy said:That would be easier but I don't think there'll be any snow over there when the team are going.... :?:
As far as I can tell the Bergan Ally Canoes are man portable by one person....so I think the best way around personal kit is the the team buddies up and one person carries the canoe and the other carries a bergan with both people's kit in it.....just means the team will have to travel light...but then that's the point of us being bushcrafters and not just another expedition right?
As for an odd number, Chris is right...it's a good idea to have a scout in a kayak on an unknown river (using two way radio's back to the team to warn of rappids and falls ect).... but then that throws up it's own problems of portaging a kayak....and that person's person kit. 15 to 20 miles with up to three weeks of rations, your living gear and a whole kayak to yourself isn't going to be any fun. lol....that's why I prefer canoes
Sorry mate, only read this one after you posted, it had occurred to me as well that you should not have too much snow this time of year just after I posted, all the best and happy new year, Leon. :wave:
They are, but if you guys are portaging up to 59 miles on the longest haul, then I wouldn't like to be the one carrying it :yikes:bambodoggy said:
The trolleys will be a far better option than carrying an akward size thing like a canoe, but once out in the terrain the trolleys won't work all that well.
By the way, the video on Torneälven will be ready over the weekend. I have already digitalised the VHS version, but have to edit and use 2 cd's to get the whole 45 min. The guys even capsize with the big 6 man canoe
): Chris, I will PM you when it's ready for posting.
That's brilliant, thanks. :biggthump
The main trouble with trolleys is what to do with them when we don't need them any more - in fact our need for them is sandwiched between paddling and the middle of nowhere - so they'll have to fit in the canoes if we're to use them.
The main trouble with trolleys is what to do with them when we don't need them any more - in fact our need for them is sandwiched between paddling and the middle of nowhere - so they'll have to fit in the canoes if we're to use them.
Don't worry about that, I had a look at the 2 wheeled trolleys at our local canoe center and the trolleys fold up very small and flat, would easily fit into the canoes.
If you use the 2 wheeled trolleys you can send them to me for safe disposalarctic hobo said:
): :roll: Seriously though (ohh well, that first line was quite serious too
), the 2 wheeled version do not occupy very much space when folded. I haven't got one myself, but have borrowed one on several occasions and they are brilliant kit !
bambodoggy
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I have to wonder if (being bushcrafti as we are) we couldn't put a couple of these trollies together with a couple of lcally collected branches and then load heaps onto them on the flat bits and maybe make up extra time!
The reason I thought that is that most of these trollies are designed for solid canoes....remember the ones Chris is advocating pack down into their own rucksacs anyway):
Trolly would be great for the kayaker though!
The reason I thought that is that most of these trollies are designed for solid canoes....remember the ones Chris is advocating pack down into their own rucksacs anyway
): Trolly would be great for the kayaker though!
