ethics of game shooting
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I have nothing against shooting and go shooting for pest control purposes but I have always found breeding an animal just to shoot it a bit pointless nothing wrong with it just not my cup of tea
Depends on the big or little view. If it maintains "virgin" fields and woodland - and all the diversity of life therein - surely that's a good thing? The economic alternatives, such as oilseed rape production or conifer woodland, seem much less attractive to me.
The only reason indiscrimate poisioning is on the increase is the goverment has failed to allow a provision in the law to deal with protected species such as raptors that maybe causing problems, when you force keepers etc into a corner then something is going to happen. I do not know of any licences granted to deal with protected raptors, however many have been granted to deal with cormarants, which is strange as cormarants and raptors have the same protection status!! I'm sure most keeper given the choice would choose the legal route!!!
although i wish people would stop shooting the feral goats up here.
but if you are looking for quarry to blat indiscriminately, you could try corvids notably magpies. there is strong evidence to corolate their prolification with a decrease in passerines. plus the squawking b******s look like they're wearing shell suits.
but if you are looking for quarry to blat indiscriminately, you could try corvids notably magpies. there is strong evidence to corolate their prolification with a decrease in passerines. plus the squawking b******s look like they're wearing shell suits.
Breeding game to be killed ethically is the same as rearing factory chickens and I have on problems with either; I'm a meat eater and won't get on my high horse about where Tesco gets chickens, I don't care to be honest; if I did I'd not eat meat but I don't like to see meat wasted. If we kill it we should eat it.
I do care. I'd much rather an animal was shot and died quickly - even if they are winged they are generally humanely dispatched quickly. I not only feel fairer if the meat I eat is killed and lived well, but it generally tastes a damn site better.
I was playing in the woods with my friend John this weekend so I couldn't go stalking, but my friend did and that meant last night I filled my freezer. Great meat, quick death, happy life. My kind of meal: this is when I need hide tags like BB.
She's all in my freezer now and yes my fingers were cold.
To be fair as a shooter, I dont think this is the same, the game birds are well looked after, well fed and are living a natural unstressful life, and 54% of ours went unshot this year!!
Choose the legal route or the easier route? Indiscriminate poisoning is just that. Indiscriminate.
I, not that long ago, recovered a Golden Eagle and a Fox poisoned on the hill side. A Golden Eagle johhnytheboy, a status symbol of our great nation. Similarly I've recovered a White Tail Sea Eagle, Buzzards galore and a host of other mammals and birds.
I've listened to opinions and views galore in relation to both sides. Raptors will take game birds of that there is no doubt. Buzzards are more common now than at any other time in living history so is there an argument for selective culling? Possibly.
Or are there other methods that can be taken to ensure that they don't take game birds?
Badgers are a good example. Calls galore for culls down south from areas rife with bTB. Why do we not have it in Scotland? Our methods of cattle movement are better controlled and managed. We dont have have any notable bTB here as a result.
Seals. The new Marine act has come into place which hopefully will reduce the killing of seals which in the main can be controlled by other measures but there are hardly any license applications to shoot seals.
I just get annoyed when the hunting, shooting, fishing brigade get on their high horse shouting from the rooftops that only they can be for the benefit of the countryside.
In my experience it is quite a way away from the truth. Some of the biggest, localised destruction I have seen of habitat and wooded areas is on the Islands on Loch Awe from fishermen who go there, between trees butchered for firewood, litter and human waste left and fishing line strewn all over the place it's shocking!
Edit, I do care about a clean kill whether that be from a gun or electricity, neither of which are 100%. Factory farm or a nice field and corn? Dead is dead, I care a heck of a lot more about the treatment of humans than worrying about if my chicken passed on peacfully. The only meat I pay over the odds for is beef, well hung beef; and show me the nutritional advantage over fresh veg and I may switch, truth is there is none, a carrot is a carrot although you may feel better saying "oh ya, gone organic, Harry and Jacinda insisted" load of *******
I wouldn't be too harsh on organic produce Rik. It's not all about yuppies with cash to spare - says the working class London boy who buys all the cheap cuts!. Much organic produce has higher nutritional value, none of the harmful chemicals that get absorbed into our bodies and destroy other flora and fauna, and isn't modified at a molecular level...God knows what that does to it!. I share your passion for good beef as well which I buy organic and grass fed. I've read that there is so much more omega 3 in grass fed beef that fish supplementation isn't anywhere near as necessary for your RDA. Food for thought - and eating.
Recent research show no nutritional difference between farmer Giles organic carrots or a kilo bag of Tesco value carrots; IMO its broadly speaking nothing more than a con. Sales have slumped because people are short of cash but many also realise that they are buying into an image than in fact getting better produce.
I buy good food, daresay we spend more than many families of our size but then we can afford to. If I like something and it happens to be organic then I buy it but I won't buy it for the sake of it being 'organic'. Lots of folk buy ready meals and fill themselves with addatives, we don't.
So I'm not being hard on the organic movement, but I firmly believe its benefits have been lets say, inflated. Lots of myths around GM crops but thats for another thread perhaps.
That's not to say a free range Phesant shot is anywhere near the same quality of dining as a two for a fiver chicken. It's the same as everything else; to do well you have to pick and choose. I choose to actively try to stop intensive chicken farming and stand against it wherever I can. I have a right to kill and eat them (in my eyes) but surely nobody can reasonably argue we have the right to make their short lives hell to save a quid or so?
As an ex bunny hugger i think the main problem to them is the 'sport' bit. I still disagree with this bit; those guys who go to kill not to eat.
I'm vegetarian (ducks) but i'll eat it if it's been hunted; it's natural and the animals have been free their whole lives. However when it comes to the meat industry i just can't eat something that's been raised in confinement, just to be killed in it's prime. Very holocaust in my opinion.
I'm vegetarian (ducks) but i'll eat it if it's been hunted; it's natural and the animals have been free their whole lives. However when it comes to the meat industry i just can't eat something that's been raised in confinement, just to be killed in it's prime. Very holocaust in my opinion.
Thing is Rich, you don't have a right to hunt an animal, who gave you the right? Phesant or two for a fiver chicken, both dead, both born and bred to be killed by folks. Fundementally intensive chicken farming is no different to breeding game for you to pop off with your bang bang; you are raising animals to kill. People go on and on about what a nice life they had, utter tosh, they still die. This hypocracy over the animals we eat and the way we send them off to meet their maker gave me food for thought (no pun intended) and I (and this is just my opinion) decided that if I was to eat meat I should just eat it and not try and pacify myself with self indulgent nonsense about what a better human being I am for not eating factory raised meat or fish. Thats also when I stopped killing rabbits because I don't much like them and would end up giving them away so whats the point; but I will kill a trout because I enjoy eating those type of fish.
To sum up, nobody can reasonably argue we have the right to kill (regardless of method) just because we want to... we still do though. If your that worried about how meat is raised, just stop eating it, simple; the bottom line is that those animals sole purpose is to feed us.
Anyway, I've a nice shoulder of Welsh lamb on the go, stuffed with apricots, no idea what its background is but it smells wonderful
To sum up, nobody can reasonably argue we have the right to kill (regardless of method) just because we want to... we still do though. If your that worried about how meat is raised, just stop eating it, simple; the bottom line is that those animals sole purpose is to feed us.
Anyway, I've a nice shoulder of Welsh lamb on the go, stuffed with apricots, no idea what its background is but it smells wonderful
Seems to me by the rules of nature we do have a right to kill em and them us. But a lot of people have said about respect for the animal we kill, and the meat industry just doesn't respect them.
But im gonna back out at this point, cos this argument never leads anywhere worth goin.
But im gonna back out at this point, cos this argument never leads anywhere worth goin.
As someone who pays for driven pheasent shooting i feel no gilt in doing so. All the birds that are shot are eat, either by the guns,beaters or the general public through a game dealer. As long as i kill what i`m shooting cleanly and the ones that are "pricked" are followed up and dispatched quickly i have no problem. In one way or another the eating of food products means the death of an animal, may it be milk, wheat,rape seed oil or even buying wooden products where the wood has been grown in the UK.
As for the FAC none FAC discussion, its all about shot placement. it only takes 3lbs of pressure to brake a rabbits skull, so 12lb air rifle are spot on for the job.
all the best
Ben
As for the FAC none FAC discussion, its all about shot placement. it only takes 3lbs of pressure to brake a rabbits skull, so 12lb air rifle are spot on for the job.
all the best
Ben
Purely out of interest, how many of these resulted in a prosecution of people working for shooting estates? I wonder purely because whilst I hear occasionally of such acts, I have not encountered gamekeepers with that mindset in England (doesn't mean it doesn't happen of course - theres good and bad in all professions)
casting aside the thankfully rare incidents of poisoming of raptors etc on gaming estates in an effort to protect an assett, which in the case of pheasants and red legged partridge are introduced species.
something which i haven't seen mentioned is that the UK in its entirety is a man made construct;
- all apex herbivores and predators have become extinct through us. these being;
bear
wolf
lynx
auroch
boar
reindeer
beaver
these amongst others have ceased extancy in the past 2000 years.
- 95% of the landscape in the 3000 years has been cleared or cultivated in some way. there is no british wilderness and hasn't been since the last glacial period.
as a result, the VAST majority of the UK is managed and has been managed for quite some time. hence why we have no NVC (national vegetation classification) for 'ancient woodland' only 'semi natural ancient woodland'.
because of mans influence, all these species of megafauna (vertabrates over 49kg) are no more, their impact and influence on their respective habitats have shaped the environmental traits and requirements that the flora now depend on, for exmple;
boar and auroch are primarily woodland mammals that browse low shrubbery and herbage, causing poaching and soil scarification which encouraged soft stemmed annual flowering growth, which would have fed red deer in the winter months when retreating from higher ground. the contemperary consequence of this is that our woodland are now wick with bracken and brambles that smother out field layer herbage and restricting regeneration of new tree growth. which in turn forces the deer to browse upon more trees. so we have to manage these woodlands by;
planting trees.
spraying the bracken.
erecting deer fencing.
this example you will note has made no mention of apex predators because their role in an ecosystem is well documented. but it is my opinion that we have an obligation to the sins of our forebears to maintain and at the very least learn from the mistakes of our predecessers and bring about change which would maintain a sustainable habitat and to my mind this would involve ringing large tracts of land and reintroducing the full spectrum of fauna so that the land can maitain itself.
country sports and pursuits have kept our countryside in a state of balance and i think, stopped it from degenerating too far, but most of the big money hunting is of introduced species or species kept at unnaturally high populations. in my opinion the greater crimes to make amends for are the extinction of so many species and the maintenance of an abhorrantly unnatural landscape.
something which i haven't seen mentioned is that the UK in its entirety is a man made construct;
- all apex herbivores and predators have become extinct through us. these being;
bear
wolf
lynx
auroch
boar
reindeer
beaver
these amongst others have ceased extancy in the past 2000 years.
- 95% of the landscape in the 3000 years has been cleared or cultivated in some way. there is no british wilderness and hasn't been since the last glacial period.
as a result, the VAST majority of the UK is managed and has been managed for quite some time. hence why we have no NVC (national vegetation classification) for 'ancient woodland' only 'semi natural ancient woodland'.
because of mans influence, all these species of megafauna (vertabrates over 49kg) are no more, their impact and influence on their respective habitats have shaped the environmental traits and requirements that the flora now depend on, for exmple;
boar and auroch are primarily woodland mammals that browse low shrubbery and herbage, causing poaching and soil scarification which encouraged soft stemmed annual flowering growth, which would have fed red deer in the winter months when retreating from higher ground. the contemperary consequence of this is that our woodland are now wick with bracken and brambles that smother out field layer herbage and restricting regeneration of new tree growth. which in turn forces the deer to browse upon more trees. so we have to manage these woodlands by;
planting trees.
spraying the bracken.
erecting deer fencing.
this example you will note has made no mention of apex predators because their role in an ecosystem is well documented. but it is my opinion that we have an obligation to the sins of our forebears to maintain and at the very least learn from the mistakes of our predecessers and bring about change which would maintain a sustainable habitat and to my mind this would involve ringing large tracts of land and reintroducing the full spectrum of fauna so that the land can maitain itself.
country sports and pursuits have kept our countryside in a state of balance and i think, stopped it from degenerating too far, but most of the big money hunting is of introduced species or species kept at unnaturally high populations. in my opinion the greater crimes to make amends for are the extinction of so many species and the maintenance of an abhorrantly unnatural landscape.
Legal route or easier route, there is no legal route to deal with problem raptors, no licences are being granted to deal with the problem, I would like to bet that given the legal route that would be choose time and time again before illegal posioning. Maybe you should be campaigning for an alternative method to deal with the problem!!!!
When it comes to litter I'm with you on that, even on our small shoot, I keep finding cartridges everywhere, and dont get me started on fisherman, I have never met a bunch of folk who can carry carry a crate of beer to a loch side but cant carry the empties back!!!
When it comes to litter I'm with you on that, even on our small shoot, I keep finding cartridges everywhere, and dont get me started on fisherman, I have never met a bunch of folk who can carry carry a crate of beer to a loch side but cant carry the empties back!!!
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