Eighty moose?
- Thread starter Burnt Ash
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The point remains though, do they let the males reach adulthood or do they cull most of them off when young, if they do then its possible that the huge quantities of meat that people are coming up with are over estimated.
Hey, I don't know cos I have never had anything at all to do with moose, thats why I was asking
The point remains though, do they let the males reach adulthood or do they cull most of them off when young, if they do then its possible that the huge quantities of meat that people are coming up with are over estimated.
Hey, I don't know cos I have never had anything at all to do with moose, thats why I was asking
NP dude, if you don't ask you don't learn!
I think it is safe to say they would let the bulls and cows reach adulthood, the idea behind lambs is that lambs demands much higher price then sheep, ask any sheep farmer if they're busy around spring and they'll tell you! Geez, it's a nightmare, constant checking and lambing. Lambs are tender, sheep are tough and chewy. Also with farm animals you have to 'pay' their feed (even if this doesn't mean strict monetary value, you still have to consider grazing of the pastures, which are a limited resource for most farmers). This gives a rather high price for the meat (weight of feed per weight of meat so to speak). While the wild animals mostly just wander around aimlessly and bump into random things and basically just mind their own business. And increase in weight while doing so. If you kept culling at a slow rate you would have a steady supply of good size bulls and cows, under the assumption that you had access to an area large enough to sustain you. This is of course questionable if you kept chewin' away at the rate suggested by the honourable Mors.
A problem with lean meat such as mr moose is that it takes great energy to metabolise the proteins (i.e. the idea behind atkins, also the cause of rabbit/hare starvation). I think that the 'native' (who I'm I talking about really?) people would try to variate their diet with fish, fowl, eggs, berries and maybe roots, lichens and whatever to reduce the risk of starvation.
It would be interesting to ask any of the canadian first nation guys how they lived, but I don't know if any knowledge of the pre-'civilisation' culture is still around. In northern scandinavia and siberia the surviving cultures (or maybe more correct, the results of centuries of assimilation and exchange between different native and invading cultures) domesticated the hardy reindeer as a steady supply of food. But they still fish a lot, and hunt, and forage, and trade. Going even more OT, the coastal scaninavian and siberian cultures lived mostly of fishing, whaling and sealhunting, but's that's a whole other story.
"A problem with lean meat such as mr moose is that it takes great energy to metabolise the proteins (i.e. the idea behind atkins, also the cause of rabbit/hare starvation). I think that the 'native' (who I'm I talking about really?) people would try to variate their diet with fish, fowl, eggs, berries and maybe roots, lichens and whatever to reduce the risk of starvation."
Rabbit starvation is caused by lack of vitamins/minerals, not becuase eating protein needs energy. The energy needed to digest proteins is outweighted by the energy gained.
Rabbit starvation is caused by lack of vitamins/minerals, not becuase eating protein needs energy. The energy needed to digest proteins is outweighted by the energy gained.
Stuart did a very thorough analysis of the problem a couple of years ago. As you say, it wasn't the energy needed to digest the protein, but that you simply couldn't get enough energy from protein alone for a sedintary life, let alone one where you have to hunt for food.
The main cause though was all to do with the body's usage of ATP and the liver's inability to process more than a certain amount of protien per day, compounded by hyperammonaemia (the liver dumping excess ammonia into the blood stream). The latter explaining why people deteriorate faster than expected due simply to the energy/amino acid deficite.
Moose meat is part of my family's diet.
There is no way a family of 4 eats 80 moose a year. That is ridiculous. It is worth a great laugh,
or in fact I think it's an insult to northern peoples.
Moose are browse eaters. They're browsing up to 90 kms a day and they know exactly where they are going.
Cows with calves you don't want to get between. If she feels any threat to her calf she will charge with no hesitation. I watched a cow charging a dog infront of our cabin. She moved her front legs like huge baseball bats, low but with lightning speed.
Moose meat tastes similar to lean beef and depending on when it's taken can have 5cm thick of fat on parts of its body.
Scott
Living in moose country
There is no way a family of 4 eats 80 moose a year. That is ridiculous. It is worth a great laugh,
or in fact I think it's an insult to northern peoples. Moose are browse eaters. They're browsing up to 90 kms a day and they know exactly where they are going.
Cows with calves you don't want to get between. If she feels any threat to her calf she will charge with no hesitation. I watched a cow charging a dog infront of our cabin. She moved her front legs like huge baseball bats, low but with lightning speed.
Moose meat tastes similar to lean beef and depending on when it's taken can have 5cm thick of fat on parts of its body.
Scott
Living in moose country
This thread seems to have tailed off without any real conclusion being reached, which seemed a little disappointing as Burnt Ash posted a good question; so I asked Mors if he could provide an explanation of the figure.
He says people commonly think this is a typo error, and ask whether it should have been 8 or perhaps 18, but its not a typo, it really is 80 moose a year!
The figure was reached after quite a lot of research which included questioning a group of elderly Cree on how many moose a family would take in a year under 'Ideal hunting conditions', the following needs to be taken into account when calculating the figure.
Dogs
A family of four would typically have around 8 working dogs, these are real working dogs, living outside, pulling sleds and assisting in the hunt on a daily basis. Under these work loads they consume 4 times as many calories a day than their human owners, as much as 10,000kcals a day.
Spoilage
There is obviously no refrigeration, but even with other preservative methods such as smoking quite a bit of the otherwise usable meat is lost to spoilage.
Botfly
Or more accurately the larval stage of the Botfly 'warbles', this is an interesting one that wouldn’t have occurred to me. The adult botfly lays eggs on the hairs of the Moose's lower body, which hatch and bore into the skin travelling under the skin to the back where they live until early summer before bursting through the skin, think Alien chest buster scene in miniature. This effects all the Moose to some extent and renders the hides useless for clothing, shelter, footwear etc, so at a certain time of the year ( forgot to ask exactly when, winter or autumn I assume), before the botfly have taken their toll, the native people culled a large number of animals purely for their good quality hides, often more than they could eat, so many were just skinned for the hide and left to the other animals to scavenge.
High meat consumption
Northern native peoples living an active and demanding lifestyle consumed up to 10 pounds of meat per person per day
Ideal Conditions
80 moose a year under what the Cree would consider 'Ideal conditions' in which the hunting went as well as they could have hoped for, and they had all the moose they could use (the moose provides products for a huge number of uses).
In reality a year with 'Ideal conditions' probably only occurred 3 or 4 times in an individuals life time.
I hope that helps those pondering the problem
He says people commonly think this is a typo error, and ask whether it should have been 8 or perhaps 18, but its not a typo, it really is 80 moose a year!
The figure was reached after quite a lot of research which included questioning a group of elderly Cree on how many moose a family would take in a year under 'Ideal hunting conditions', the following needs to be taken into account when calculating the figure.
Dogs
A family of four would typically have around 8 working dogs, these are real working dogs, living outside, pulling sleds and assisting in the hunt on a daily basis. Under these work loads they consume 4 times as many calories a day than their human owners, as much as 10,000kcals a day.
Spoilage
There is obviously no refrigeration, but even with other preservative methods such as smoking quite a bit of the otherwise usable meat is lost to spoilage.
Botfly
Or more accurately the larval stage of the Botfly 'warbles', this is an interesting one that wouldn’t have occurred to me. The adult botfly lays eggs on the hairs of the Moose's lower body, which hatch and bore into the skin travelling under the skin to the back where they live until early summer before bursting through the skin, think Alien chest buster scene in miniature. This effects all the Moose to some extent and renders the hides useless for clothing, shelter, footwear etc, so at a certain time of the year ( forgot to ask exactly when, winter or autumn I assume), before the botfly have taken their toll, the native people culled a large number of animals purely for their good quality hides, often more than they could eat, so many were just skinned for the hide and left to the other animals to scavenge.
High meat consumption
Northern native peoples living an active and demanding lifestyle consumed up to 10 pounds of meat per person per day
Ideal Conditions
80 moose a year under what the Cree would consider 'Ideal conditions' in which the hunting went as well as they could have hoped for, and they had all the moose they could use (the moose provides products for a huge number of uses).
In reality a year with 'Ideal conditions' probably only occurred 3 or 4 times in an individuals life time.
I hope that helps those pondering the problem
Ahh.. that makes sense. We forgot to mention the other members of the family, dogs and not just dogs, big working dogs.
Easily 90 to a 100 pounds a day.
Where we live the hides of moose are infested with ticks. Right now actually during the breakup in the spring.
The moose look pretty ragged after a warmer winter because the infestation lasts longer and they are being fed on.
Thanks for clearing that up Stuart.
Scott.
Easily 90 to a 100 pounds a day.
Where we live the hides of moose are infested with ticks. Right now actually during the breakup in the spring.
The moose look pretty ragged after a warmer winter because the infestation lasts longer and they are being fed on.
Thanks for clearing that up Stuart.
Scott.
Rabbit starvation seemed to affect only the white folk, off their home territory, and mainly in winter time when bigger game was rare. Natives (Americans Indians and the like) process rabbit differently to Europeans, not only rabbits but also squirrels and trout. With rabbits, Europeans, just eat the lean meat and a few select organs. Native people ate all of the animal, bar the bones and the pelt, even then they cracked open the bones, for the marrow, they would also eat most of the stomach content of the animal ( a sort of sour grassy green salad). The bones would be cooked in a bone rendering pot and the resulting 'soup' was used as a fatty stock to be added other foods.
The partially digested greens that the animal ate, must still have contained enough vitamins B, C, E to satisfy the bodys needs, the bone, and the marrow would also be a rich source of fats and oils. Even the eyeballs have a use as they contain salt and water; the internal organs would contain trace elements and vitamin A.
Its not that eating too many rabbits leads to death by starvation, its ignorance of how get all that you can from the animal, that leads to death
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