Efficiency

[Thenihilist]

Done 2 courses with Mors this year and something he talked about was effeciency in the bush. He was saying how being able to do something or knowing how to do something isn't much use if you can't do it effeciently.

Best example is his pamphlet you get while being taught how to make the try stick where it says it should be done within 10 minutes and neatly.

Does anyone practice for effeciency?

I've only been practicing knife skills and after a lot of practice can make a good try stick in the 10 minutes, which has helped immensely as where as it used to take 10 minutes to make an adjustable pot hook i can do in a minute.

In the past i've learned something then moved onto learning the next skill and really i've not really learned anything thats going to be any use.

Naturally a lot of folk don't really care lol but the questions for those who are.

 

[Thenihilist]

In a way i may have speeded up learning other things by taking a hell of a lot of time practicing our most fundamental skill.

Got the calluses to prove it lol

 

[blacktimberwolf]

I tend to judge efficiency by the results & not the stop watch

but I'm an old fogey who likes to take his time.

 

[Bushwhacker]

I tend to judge efficiency by the results & not the stop watch

but I'm an old fogey who likes to take his time.

Yeah, do it once and do it right.

 

[Ex-member PaganBushcraft]

Efficiency is simple maximum gean for minimum effort. or keep, it, simple, stupid, K.I.S.S

 

[Thenihilist]

Yeah, do it once and do it right.

True when your making things your going to use for a long time but for a lot of things you make it then once your finished it go's in the fire.

If you don't have forked sticks you'll have to carve an end nock to get the same effect, it's not much use spending 10 mins making it flawless when you can spend 2 minutes making a neat, fit for purpose one, then you have made 8 mins!

Or if you wanted to make a trapline of figure 4 deadfalls it's not much use spending an hour making 10 flawless ones when you can make 50 in the same time and make them so they will be effective and neat, your more likely to get something to eat.

It's no use spending a day making a pack frame to haul firewood when you can learn to use a knife properly and make it in an hour and still make it just as well as the guy that took all day.

 

[Bushwhacker]

I don't like doing things in haste, life's a marathon and not a race.

Cool, that rhymes!

Getting me to do something quickly is trying to bath a cat.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

True when your making things your going to use for a long time but for a lot of things you make it then once your finished it go's in the fire.

If you don't have forked sticks you'll have to carve an end nock to get the same effect, it's not much use spending 10 mins making it flawless when you can spend 2 minutes making a neat, fit for purpose one, then you have made 8 mins!

Or if you wanted to make a trapline of figure 4 deadfalls it's not much use spending an hour making 10 flawless ones when you can make 50 in the same time and make them so they will be effective and neat, your more likely to get something to eat.

It's no use spending a day making a pack frame to haul firewood when you can learn to use a knife properly and make it in an hour and still make it just as well as the guy that took all day.

Can't agree with you there .................that is a rather limited & limiting way of seeing things if all you are concerned with is the time something takes to be made....... I don't agree with the phrase you quoted earlier either," being able to do something or knowing how to do something isn't much use if you can't do it effeciently.".....if you know how & are able to do something then that to me, means you're "efficient" regardless of the time it takes you......some people are faster than others at making things but that doesn't make them more efficient (unless they're on a factory production line that is ) I cannot accept that those that take their time are less "efficient"
Look at native peoples, they don't rush jobs, even if they're only going to be used once.

 

[Thenihilist]

I'm not talking about rushing anything, i learned that lesson about 10 times when i ruined what i was making from rushing lol.

If you have ever seen Mors at work he doesn't rush anything but he spent the time learning the skills that he can do things very fast, to a very high quality without rushing at all.

Thats effecienc.

Cool you disagree as i might learn something.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

he can do things very fast, without rushing at all.

Bit of a contradiction but I know what you mean.....I personally wouldn't call that efficiency but 'skill' ............ In normal bushcrafting circumstances it is irrelevant if something takes 1 minute or a day to make, the important thing is do it at your own rhythm & enjoy doing it...

 

[Iona]

suppose it depends on the situation youre in and the amount of stuff you need to get done to comfortably survive the night... if you're out without a lot, need to get shelter built, trap/pick food, gather fire wood, build a fire with wet wood etc, then surely the faster you're capable of making something or doing something so it effectively does the job, the more likely you are to have a comfortable night... Spend an hour fiddling with the fire and you're going to be wishing you hadn't come bed time when you've no food to cook on it! I tend to do everything at my own leisurely pace as it goes, but the couple of really 'survival' based weekends I've done, without much kit, I've had to up my game and think ahead... So a foot in both camps I guess, but I get your point, and it's worth thinking about the trade off and which way to lean it on each task

 

[blacktimberwolf]

suppose it depends on the situation youre in and the amount of stuff you need to get done to comfortably survive the night... if you're out without a lot, need to get shelter built, trap/pick food, gather fire wood, build a fire with wet wood etc, then surely the faster you're capable of making something or doing something so it effectively does the job, the more likely you are to have a comfortable night... Spend an hour fiddling with the fire and you're going to be wishing you hadn't come bed time when you've no food to cook on it! I tend to do everything at my own leisurely pace as it goes, but the couple of really 'survival' based weekends I've done, without much kit, I've had to up my game and think ahead... So a foot in both camps I guess, but I get your point, and it's worth thinking about the trade off and which way to lean it on each task

You've made some good points there.
That's my problem then, as I always carry most things I need on my back & because I don't do 'survivalism' I can't see the urgency.

 

[Mick w.]

You beat me to it, BTW - that sounds more like survival than 'hobby' bushcraft.
Luckily it IS a hobby for me, as at the moment I'm s**t at it!

 

[Thenihilist]

You beat me to it, BTW - that sounds more like survival than 'hobby' bushcraft.
Luckily it IS a hobby for me, as at the moment I'm s**t at it!

If it takes you all day to set up a tarp, you have not done anything.
I like to go set up, make myself a chair, make a cooking rig, collect some wood, then wander around admiring the beauty.

If i hadn't practiced using a knife i wouldn't be setting the tarp up all day then would have no fire, nowhere to sit and no time to admire.

Thats very un survival and very bushcraft but it applies to both.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

If it takes you all day to set up a tarp, you have not done anything..

Wrong! you have done something...... you've set up a tarp

 

[Shotgun]

There's a point there I think but I relate it to survival needs more then bushcrafting. Bushcrafting is more hobby then anything so one should go at their own pace. In survival, being able to do things quickly with the least amount of effort is ideal as long as your working safely. This is where bushcrafting could potentially be a detriment to survival.

 

[sandbender]

"...Done 2 courses with Mors this year..."

Were those the extended Karamat courses? More info on your time there and some pics would be great.

 

[jackcbr]

For me, it's all about how you measure efficiency. There are people who can do one cut carving a spoon and achieve a great finish and no need to sand. Whilst mere mortals such as me, needs to do several cuts and sand for hours. But the more I persevere, the less cuts I need and less sanding. It still takes me the same time to make a spoon, but the (physical) effort I put in is less, ergo, more efficient. Time wise, no different,

 

[decorum]

... then wander around admiring the beauty...

(I think) I can see where you're coming from ~ get the work chores done and then get on with nature watching/skill practice/projects etc.

The other side of the coin is that many places that we go might not be able sustain having spars (for example) cut from the greenery. So we cut once, make it pretty (possibly so that others realise that it isn't for the fire ) and keep using it time after time ~ which, in itself, is quite efficient .



Efficiency is always good ~ having it enables you get on with other stuff .

 

[FGYT]

yep

me n my mate have the saying

loaf to live