Could anyone put me straight on the issue of taking knives, axes, etc on trains.I have been informed that if I wish to do so I must inform the train company before travelling. As I am coming to the bushmoot this year on the train with said tools, I would like to find out the rules before going. Obviously all my kit will be packed within my bergen.
Edged tools on trains
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It would appear that no one knows what is the correct thing to do.
Myself and 3please were going through London last weekend with our kit and because of this had made previous enquiries to be on the safe side.
The train company said that we would have to get written permission from them (although I think the guy was under the impression we'd be wandering down the train wearing suits made from blades and axes) but the British Transport Police said providing any knives/axes were kept in our packs then we would not have to get permission and we wouldn't be breaking the law.
I think the best thing to do is to call the Transport police and let them know where you're going and what you'll have in your pack. They can give you a number to say that they have your name etc should there be any problems.
hth
Myself and 3please were going through London last weekend with our kit and because of this had made previous enquiries to be on the safe side.
The train company said that we would have to get written permission from them (although I think the guy was under the impression we'd be wandering down the train wearing suits made from blades and axes) but the British Transport Police said providing any knives/axes were kept in our packs then we would not have to get permission and we wouldn't be breaking the law.
I think the best thing to do is to call the Transport police and let them know where you're going and what you'll have in your pack. They can give you a number to say that they have your name etc should there be any problems.
hth
I would agree with twoflower if you ak the British Transport Police and follow tghier advice you should be OK.
I spent some time looking into this earlier this year and spoke to the transport police. I told them what I would be carrying (knife and axe) and that they would be packed in a rucksack, etc. They were fine with this. The rules are that you can carry these things if you have reasonable excuse and you'll have that. I'd simply pack them and not make too much of a fuss. To make things more secure I put my pack into a rin cover that zips up then padlocked the zip. This would mean that unless you had the key you'd not get into the sharps inside (unless you already had a knife of course!!). This is totally reasonable and I don't think anybody will question it.
The transport police didn't say I'd have to inform the train company. You could if you wanted to do this and perhaps ask for your pack to be stored in the guards area. I'd not bother.
I think that pretty much every police man/woman in the country are reasonable and are simply not going to cause an issue over this. Take your booking form with you and show it to anybody that questions you and don't worry too much about it. You'll be fine.
Caveat is that I'm slightly concerned about any silly knee jerk reactions that will come out in the new anti-knife stuff on monday
I can remember the "Moot" at Braziers Park, where I had arranged to meet up with one of the other members en route, we had kept in touch by mobile phone and everything seemed to be running to schedule to meet up.
That did not happen as we had planned however. He was stopped and searched by the BTP, he was then detained before being released after an hour and a half. The guys that had detained him got a rocket from their desk sergeant for their actions.
Effectively they had no reason for searching his kit, but they did find sharps in his pack and they detained him. This was unreasonable because despite the fact that he had reason for carrying and that said sharps were not easily accessible he was still taken in.
As twoflower said, if you ask the British Transport Police ask if they can take note of the enquiry and also try to get as much detail from them and recorded as possible.
Many laws are or can be interpreted in different ways, just because most think you are in the right doesn't mean that they all will and having something to fall back on will do no harm.
That did not happen as we had planned however. He was stopped and searched by the BTP, he was then detained before being released after an hour and a half. The guys that had detained him got a rocket from their desk sergeant for their actions.
Effectively they had no reason for searching his kit, but they did find sharps in his pack and they detained him. This was unreasonable because despite the fact that he had reason for carrying and that said sharps were not easily accessible he was still taken in.
As twoflower said, if you ask the British Transport Police ask if they can take note of the enquiry and also try to get as much detail from them and recorded as possible.
Many laws are or can be interpreted in different ways, just because most think you are in the right doesn't mean that they all will and having something to fall back on will do no harm.
One thing that concerns me about this is that public transport is, ironically, all privatised. If a company doesn't want you on their trains with knives, they'd have a very good footing for kicking you off or not allowing you on, as the law states that with reasonable excuse, you can carry knives legally in a public place; which a train is not.
However, I think that if you DO get stopped and searched, or if there's a metal detector or the like, the best course of action is to say, before they even start searching, that you are carrying knives/axe/whatever for a camping trip. I wouldn't use the word Bushcraft. It does look a bit more suspicious when they search you as you stand and look disgruntled, and they find an axe in your bag. An example of this; my father was accompanying my step-brother to court for a custody hearing. He spotted the metal detectors and realised that he had a lock-knife in his pocket, so he took the guard aside and explained that he had the knife, and offered to put it in the glove-box of his car. The guard agreed, but did state that had the metal detector gone off and they'd searched him, he would have been detained.
Peace and happy camping
However, I think that if you DO get stopped and searched, or if there's a metal detector or the like, the best course of action is to say, before they even start searching, that you are carrying knives/axe/whatever for a camping trip. I wouldn't use the word Bushcraft. It does look a bit more suspicious when they search you as you stand and look disgruntled, and they find an axe in your bag. An example of this; my father was accompanying my step-brother to court for a custody hearing. He spotted the metal detectors and realised that he had a lock-knife in his pocket, so he took the guard aside and explained that he had the knife, and offered to put it in the glove-box of his car. The guard agreed, but did state that had the metal detector gone off and they'd searched him, he would have been detained.
Peace and happy camping
This came up on anotehr forum and was a while ago
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=26023&in_page_id=34
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=26023&in_page_id=34
I've decided to e-mail the train company and the transport police regarding my enquiry, as of yet I have had no reply. I will let you guys know if anything of importance cames back. Think I will have a word with my local police as well.
I think we as a group need to start getting the message across that, as far as we are concerned, our knives and axes are tools and not weapons. As long as we do that and act responsibly as people have been saying here I think we have little to fear.
Update! Train company has got back to me, they said it's o.k to take the tools on board as long as they remain packed in my bergen at all times.
