Edge regrind from scandi to convex

[GDSO]

All,

I have a fantastic Lion Steel M4 in M390, supplied with a high sabre grind and micro-bevel v edge. Link below. I'm thinking about having the edge reground to an F1 style convex but would like this done by someone who knows what they're doing and who won't screw up my knife.

Aside from the relative benefits of V vs convex, could anyone make any suggestions for who may be able to do a great job of the regrind?

Thanks,
Greg

M4 fixed blade knife | Canvas handle - Green

Fixed blade knife with waterproof handle: M4 by lionSTEEL is ideal for monuntain and bushcraft. Buy now on the official shop!

www.lionsteel.it

 

[ESpy]

Less of a regrind, more of a resharpen with that profile. While it could be done on a belt, equally there's no real reason why a jigged sharpener couldn't do the job.
https://support.wickededgeusa.com/portal/en/kb/articles/how-to-create-a-convex-edge for example.
Freehand too, depends on how you are at holding angles.

(Not offering BTW - got quite enough on my plate ATM!)

 

[Fadcode]

The title of the thread is a bit misleading.

 

[GDSO]

Apologies. I'm looking to regrind a scandi to convex, and thought that might cover it. Edited.

 

[alphaburner]

There is a guy called Longstrider that used do some great sharpening and regrinding jobs. I still see him on stalking directory, not sure if he is here.

 

[gra_farmer]

There is a guy called Longstrider that used do some great sharpening and regrinding jobs. I still see him on stalking directory, not sure if he is here.

He isn't around to much, but send him a PM and he will get back to you. Nice chap too

 

[Nice65]

I’d add that LionSteel have been making knives for a long, long time and have designed that edge to be strong and perform well. If it is simply the micro bevel that you want convexed, that will happen naturally with time and use. A bit of 3mm leather and some hard stropping compound, plus a bit of field sharpening on a Diafold or stone will soon change its shape.

I wonder if you’re overthinking the edge a bit, I know I’ve done the same with some knives and ended up with chips in the blade.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Apologies. I'm looking to regrind a scandi to convex, and thought that might cover it. Edited.

You were talking about a M4, which is a very high sabre grind, so high on its deep blade that it is practically full flat + secondary geometry. I think the M4 is thinner, mid blade, than a F1, so you might not get as much of a convex. Flat grinding to the spine, and convexing the edge could be possible, but if we call the grind on an M4 a Scandi then that term really has lost all practical use for communication. Are you expecting the Lion Steel logo to be ground off?

 

[gra_farmer]

I’d add that LionSteel have been making knives for a long, long time and have designed that edge to be strong and perform well. If it is simply the micro bevel that you want convexed, that will happen naturally with time and use. A bit of 3mm leather and some hard stropping compound, plus a bit of field sharpening on a Diafold or stone will soon change its shape.

I wonder if you’re overthinking the edge a bit, I know I’ve done the same with some knives and ended up with chips in the blade.

Is that example your thinking of the esee 3?

 

[Murat_Cyp]

I would argue that you can grind a convex geometry to flat by removing steel, but I do not think the other way around is possible since you can not put material (i.e. steel) on saber ground knife to make it convex. Particularly if you are after Fallknives type fat convex.

 

[GDSO]

I feel I've opened a can of worms here, unintentionally. My LionSteel, and other knives, all have a microbevel. This varies in size depending on the thickness of the steel (my fox MB 105 is quite think so the bevel is wider) and most were put on by Emberleaf in Petworth.

What I'd like to try is removing the shoulder on the microbevel to allow a smooth transituion to the main surface of the blade which is then more easily maintained wth a strop. I say that as I find maintaining the angle of a microbevel difficult and woder whether an F1 type grind would be easier to strop / keep sharp.

 

[mikehill]

You’ll never get it like an F1 due to the grind. Just try stropping only and in time you’ll end up with a mini convex edge. Or buy an F1 lol

 

[Murat_Cyp]

I feel I've opened a can of worms here, unintentionally. My LionSteel, and other knives, all have a microbevel. This varies in size depending on the thickness of the steel (my fox MB 105 is quite think so the bevel is wider) and most were put on by Emberleaf in Petworth.

What I'd like to try is removing the shoulder on the microbevel to allow a smooth transituion to the main surface of the blade which is then more easily maintained wth a strop. I say that as I find maintaining the angle of a microbevel difficult and woder whether an F1 type grind would be easier to strop / keep sharp.

There is a bit confusion on the terminology. What you described is secondary bevel not a microbevel. Micro-bevel is something else.

Yes it is quite possible to do what you have described here and you will not need a regrind to do that. As you strop your secondary bevel, by the time the transition between the primary grind and the secondary grind will blend it and your secondary bevel would be convex. If you want to do it in one go, then yes you will need a grinder. A worksharp sharpening would do the trick, with a risk of ruining the edge but all the factory edges are ruined anyway ))

But know this, maintaining the secondary bevel whether it is flat or convex is quite easy. Additionally, I find stropping a flat secondary bevel easier than convex secondary. It is much easier to round the apex of a convex secondary bevel with stropping if you are not careful or the backing material of your strop has much give in. To avoid that, I recommend to use hard backing strops (i.e. wood strops) and with hard backing strops, it is easier to maintain a flat secondary than a convex secondary. You should also know this, if you damage your edge, a convex secondary is always more difficult to sharpen again due to the risk involved with rounding the apex. If you freehand sharpen your knives, you will get a convex secondary regardless.

In my opinion there is not much point of trying to convert a flat secondary to convex secondary. Yes, you might get some easier time with feathersticking but if you do not know what you are doing or not being very careful with what you are doing it is quite likely that you will round off the apex by using typical convex sharpening methods. If you round of the apex then your knife will be useless and you will need to spend a lot of time on sharpening stones to get your secondary bevel properly apexed again, but doing so you will remove a lot of metal, decreasing the life time of the knife and your edge will become thicker reducing the cutting performance of the knife.

So, it might worth considering selling your knife and get a Fallkniven if that's what you are after.

 

[Coach]

There is a bit confusion on the terminology. What you described is secondary bevel not a microbevel. Micro-bevel is something else.

Yes it is quite possible to do what you have described here and you will not need a regrind to do that. As you strop your secondary bevel, by the time the transition between the primary grind and the secondary grind will blend it and your secondary bevel would be convex. If you want to do it in one go, then yes you will need a grinder. A worksharp sharpening would do the trick, with a risk of ruining the edge but all the factory edges are ruined anyway ))

But know this, maintaining the secondary bevel whether it is flat or convex is quite easy. Additionally, I find stropping a flat secondary bevel easier than convex secondary. It is much easier to round the apex of a convex secondary bevel with stropping if you are not careful or the backing material of your strop has much give in. To avoid that, I recommend to use hard backing strops (i.e. wood strops) and with hard backing strops, it is easier to maintain a flat secondary than a convex secondary. You should also know this, if you damage your edge, a convex secondary is always more difficult to sharpen again due to the risk involved with rounding the apex. If you freehand sharpen your knives, you will get a convex secondary regardless.

In my opinion there is not much point of trying to convert a flat secondary to convex secondary. Yes, you might get some easier time with feathersticking but if you do not know what you are doing or not being very careful with what you are doing it is quite likely that you will round off the apex by using typical convex sharpening methods. If you round of the apex then your knife will be useless and you will need to spend a lot of time on sharpening stones to get your secondary bevel properly apexed again, but doing so you will remove a lot of metal, decreasing the life time of the knife and your edge will become thicker reducing the cutting performance of the knife.

So, it might worth considering selling your knife and get a Fallkniven if that's what you are after.

Can I just introduce a Word of Caution here, be very careful what you do to your knife, a worksharp will destroy it in 5 Secs if you dont know what you're doing.. 'Experts' will lead you into doing something you will later regret big time. If your knife doesnt do what you want sell it and buy a knife that does, .. unless of course youve got money to burn.

 

[Murat_Cyp]

Can I just introduce a Word of Caution here, be very careful what you do to your knife, a worksharp will destroy it in 5 Secs if you dont know what you're doing.. 'Experts' will lead you into doing something you will later regret big time. They are really good at yakkking really technical bull***t . If your knife doesnt do what you want sell it and buy a knife that does, .. unless of course youve got money to burn.

As you quote my post to give "advice" to the OP, I assume you implying that I misinformed the OP as an "expert". Since you direct the unnecessary hostility towards me, I am obliged to respond.

I have never claimed myself as an expert, but I believe there is nothing wrong with my advice. Furthermore, what you suggested to the OP was already written in my post that you quoted. So, what you said is hostile and more importantly illogical and meaningless as you are not suggesting anything new but trying to pull down the people around you. What you did is even more miserable as you seek advice from us (so called experts) in your other thread but in this thread you are trying to pull us to your level.

But no worries, I am (and probably we are) used to encounter with people like you in internet forms you are not the first and will not be the last. And know that you are not original in any means but quite fitted to certain stereotype. I am talking about type of people who do more bad than good to community he/she involved in.

So, I would really appreciate if you do not use my posts to spread your toxic character around. Thanks you

 

[mikehill]

Wow !

All I’d like to say is a worksharp without skill could indeed ruin any blade.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Can I just introduce a Word of Caution here, be very careful what you do to your knife, a worksharp will destroy it in 5 Secs if you dont know what you're doing.. 'Experts' will lead you into doing something you will later regret big time. They are really good at yakkking really technical bull***t . If your knife doesnt do what you want sell it and buy a knife that does, .. unless of course youve got money to burn.

Easy there. That post was uncalled for.

Murat_Cyp said a Worksharp could ruin an edge, and its great for you to support that warning, but your post then reads as if you are running down his advice even while you were agreeing with part of it. More, it reads that you are running down the advice of any and everyone who has posted on this thread without offering anything more than telling the OP to sell his knife and buy something else.

You yourself once bought a knife that had a handle you didn't fancy and you came here asking for advice on who could remove and replace the whole handle. You didn't get much response because that was a job very few makers would want, but no one told you that you should just sell it and buy another. I suspect you would have been most unimpressed with that advice at the time.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I feel I've opened a can of worms here, unintentionally. My LionSteel, and other knives, all have a microbevel. This varies in size depending on the thickness of the steel (my fox MB 105 is quite think so the bevel is wider) and most were put on by Emberleaf in Petworth.

What I'd like to try is removing the shoulder on the microbevel to allow a smooth transituion to the main surface of the blade which is then more easily maintained wth a strop. I say that as I find maintaining the angle of a microbevel difficult and woder whether an F1 type grind would be easier to strop / keep sharp.

If you want the job doing, and haven't been able to reach Longstrider, drop me a PM, I might be able to put you in touch. I haven't talked to him in a few months and don't know if he is still sharpening stuff.

If he isn't, I can do the job. I didn't offer before because Longstrider has made a bit of a side business out of sharpening, and I haven't, and when it was clear what you wanted I felt it would be good for you to figure out how to do it yourself. Convexing an edge is a useful skill and you might find that you do it to other knives. However, I have all the tools needed, stones and strops suitable for working M390 (I have a Bestman and a Thrill that I have worked on for myself), including a variable speed 2x72grinder with rotary platen and run-wet belts, not that I expect these will be needed.

All the best

Chris

 

[Tony]

Nice offer Chris

 

[Coach]

As you quote my post to give "advice" to the OP, I assume you implying that I misinformed the OP as an "expert". Since you direct the unnecessary hostility towards me, I am obliged to respond.

I have never claimed myself as an expert, but I believe there is nothing wrong with my advice. Furthermore, what you suggested to the OP was already written in my post that you quoted. So, what you said is hostile and more importantly illogical and meaningless as you are not suggesting anything new but trying to pull down the people around you. What you did is even more miserable as you seek advice from us (so called experts) in your other thread but in this thread you are trying to pull us to your level.

But no worries, I am (and probably we are) used to encounter with people like you in internet forms you are not the first and will not be the last. And know that you are not original in any means but quite fitted to certain stereotype. I am talking about type of people who do more bad than good to community he/she involved in.

So, I would really appreciate if you do not use my posts to spread your toxic character around. Thanks you

My post was NOT directed at you - if it was I would have named you.. my post was about being cautious with a worksharp which your post mentioned, sorry you're so sensitive and thanks for the personal insults and character assassination . And since you are hurt and wounded by my post Ive removed the offending sentance.

Easy there. That post was uncalled for.

Murat_Cyp said a Worksharp could ruin an edge, and its great for you to support that warning, but your post then reads as if you are running down his advice even while you were agreeing with part of it. More, it reads that you are running down the advice of any and everyone who has posted on this thread without offering anything more than telling the OP to sell his knife and buy something else.

You yourself once bought a knife that had a handle you didn't fancy and you came here asking for advice on who could remove and replace the whole handle. You didn't get much response because that was a job very few makers would want, but no one told you that you should just sell it and buy another. I suspect you would have been most unimpressed with that advice at the time.

Wrong!! I would have listened and sold it - which is what I actually did in the end. Because that was the sensible option.