Ebay, Paypal, (Australia): be warned!

[oetzi]

Please note, I dont mean that Aussies are crooks!
I did write "Australia" in the title because I need one of you from down there to help me get the telphone number of a guy I only have the adress of.
If you sell something abroad and do it via paypal, NEVER EVER do it the cheaper way, without registration/tracking code and an invoice showing the buyers name!
I used the last half year to get rid of lots of old stuff and sold worldwide, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Hongkong, Singapore.
And I was dump enough to offer paypal and various kinds of postage to the buyers.
No problems except one right now.
A buyer in australia wanted the cheaper (€ 12,90 instead of 37,-) option of a parcel without tracking code/registration/insurance.
The parcel didnt reach him in three weeks - it takes up to six weeks, but he not even asked me - , he made a claim with paypal and won.
Paypal said that as a seller it is not enough to show an invoice from the post office about the sum of the postage being paid, one has to have an invoice showing the name of the acceptor, too.
So the buyer got his € 180,- back and can wait quite relaxed for the parcel to show up or not, because its not him to pay dearly for not spending enough money on postage, its me.
Oh, BUGGER!

 

[ANDYRAF]

Name and shame, It's the only way to ensure he doesn't stiff someone else. If he doesn't pay on receipt of item. It does sound like con.

 

[Bushcraft4life]

So basically, he wanted the cheaper option on postage, and when it didn't come, he filed a complaint with PP and won?

So he is now sitting at him with 180 euro in his pocket and he has the leisure of waiting for the package you sent him to turn up?

:aargh4: :AR15firin

 

[oetzi]

I still try to think positively about him, maybe he feared to being conned.
Because I had several identical items for sale and posted another one a week later (another ebay-lesson learned, I will never do this again).
He probably thought that I was about to skim him.
What I really dont accept is, that he didnt even contact me about this. I could have told him and informed him that delivery might take up to six weeks with his option of delivery.
Basically, it was my fault to think that whoever takes the cheaper option also take the responsibility for the outcome. And it worked all the time but once.
My only hope is, that he receives the parcel and then transfers the money.
I doubt that he would do that when the parcel gets lost.

 

[moonvisage]

A lot of buyers are using scams to fleece sellers now.at the vintage leather jacket forum,a lot of sellers are bringing up new ebay rules that allow buyers to fleece sellers,and leave sellers with no hope of getting their money or goods back.a member sold a vintage jacket to someone,which took about 2 months or more to arrive.luckily,the buyer waited until it arrived,instead of claiming it had not arrived after a 2-3 period.the seller was panicking about it when he realised it is one of the usual ways people scam sellers,until the buyer reassured him.The same problem,tricks and scams are happening to sellers everywhere now.

 

[david0607]

I sell a lot of stuff on EBAY and this is quite a regular occurance both to UK and sellers abroad, without having the buyer sign for the item, there is no way Paypal will favour the seller. I do claim through Royal Mail when this happens, to do this you have to get a claim form from Royal Mail and they will give you the funds after they have written to the buyer and received conformation that the item did not turn up. For more expensive items you have to have taken out insurance, but for items under about £40 they will pay out. If you have not taken insurance out you will still be able to claim something back. Sometimes though the buyer claims his money back through Paypal and does not return the claim letter to Royal mail. I sell about 35 items a week through ebay both used and new, the good buyers generally make up for the scammers

 

[sam_acw]

By the same token I've had items that I'm sure were never posted go missing and then have to wait 3 weeks for all the dispute stuff to be sorted out.
Worst thing is when I go to pay now on an item where there are multiple examples (e.g. 1 backpack of a lot of 20) and they tell me it isn't in stock. Then they go on advertising it!

 

[david0607]

Sam I agree sometimes its a lottery

 

[lostplanet]

I'm starting to hate eBay and more so Paypal a lot. I got ripped but fortunatlrey didn't lose much. using paypal customer service was a nitemare at best, eBay isnt so bad but i wish there was an alternative to paypal.

Sad to hear a genuine seller losing out.

 

[Twoflower]

and to make things worse, sellers can't leave negative feedback anymore.

 

[scanker]

I agree with you lostplanet. Also, hasn't ebay changed recently in that you HAVE to use paypal?

 

[Mike Ameling]

Any buying/selling remotely is a gamble, and relies upon the "trust" of both parties involved. The only other option is to only buy in person. But that severly limits everyone's options. Yes, there are scammers out there. But there are also many many more good honest buyers and sellers. Plus, any sort of international shipping can vary a lot in delivery time.

Several years ago, ebay bought out Paypal. So they are all part of the same company now. Paypal is not required for buying/selling on ebay, but is recommended. It's the choice of the seller to offer it or not. Many very specifically state "NO PAYPAL" in their listings - because they have had problems in the past. And they then often specify Money Orders only - domestic and international. And more are requiring full tracking/receipt on mailing options. All as a result of a few "bad apples".

As with any sales in person, or remote, you have to make your own decision as to the claims and intentions of the seller - and the buyer. Do you automatically accept the claims/description of an antique dealer or car salesman?

Over here, a number of people have started referring to it as "evil-bay". A true "buyer/seller beware" situation. But I still sell my flint strikers on there. It's been good for me, and I've only had one so-so problem in the past decade.

Just my humble thoughts to share. Take them as such.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[Mike Ameling]

Ebay changed the Negative Feedback part do to some on-going blatant abuse.

Some "buyers" were using the THREAT of leaving negative feedback to ... extort ... discounts and extra financial considerations out of sellers. And some were also using negative feedback to extract "revenge" upon other people, or to damage the reputation of a competitor. So some very blatant abuse of feedback was occuring.

You can still file a form of negative feedback. It just now goes to the Dispute arbitration system. So both sides state their case, answer questions, and ebay then has to decide on the validity of the "negative feedback". If it seems justified, it will be posted and/or the user involved could face other sanctions - including being banned from ebay.


As with any system or institution, there are people who will try to ... exploit ... it for their own benefit, or sick personal entertainment.

In the early years of ebay, there were a number of people who for kicks would bid up items like crazy. But when they "won" the auction, they would either ignore all end-of-auction communication, or they would claim they never bid or did so in error. This mostly stopped after ebay turned a number of them over to the legal authorities for "breach of contract" prosecution. It ended that "big joke" bidding quickly. A "bid" is a legal contract. And when that bid crosses state or international boundaries, a lot of extra pretty serious laws kick in.

Just a few humble rambling thoughts to share. Take them as such.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

p.s. unfortunately, so many sellers are no longer offering a "cheap" shipping option because of the abuse - more and more registered/receipt required on shipping.