Dowsing

[Chris]

According to whom? Which scientists? Which multinational corporations funded these studies to disprove dowsing works?

This is where mainstream science falls apart somewhat. Come up with enough money, and there will be scientists somewhere who will get you the results you want.

There was a large cash prize available for years to anyone who could prove it under very reasonable circumstances. I’ve already linked to details on that above.

- Someone makes the claim dowsing works
- An opportunity was presented for someone to prove it in entirely reasonable circumstances (see the video)
- They were not able to prove it
- The claim is unproven and therefore can’t be stated as factually true

It seems you’re misunderstanding the scientific method and how burden of proof works. Would you be able to point me towards the scientific research which disproves a seventeen legged, invisible iguana is sitting on the roof of Buckingham Palace? Disproving things which don’t exist isn’t possible. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Proving-Non-Existence

 

[Glow_worm]

Yes, but conversely I suspect if I offered several hundred thousand for a study to prove dowsing works I could start building evidence to the contrary.

Regardless, I can dowse, science thinks it doesn't work, so there's something wrong with science....

 

[Broch]

Claim: dowsing doesn't work; prove it
To my satisfaction, I have had it proven, that there is something that I cannot explain.

 

[Pattree]

Like mediums at a seance?

Really? Interesting!
What stimulus are they detecting ?

The claim: Dowsing is real and works
My position: I won’t believe it until there’s evidence when condu

Try it. It’s not difficult. Then you can base your argument in experience.

 

[Chris]

Really? Interesting!
What stimulus are they detecting ?



Try it. It’s not difficult. Then you can base your argument in experience.

There are so many conditions that would need to be met for me to know whether it worked, it’s not as simple as just trying it if you want to make it a fair experiment.

 

[TeeDee]

Really? Interesting!
What stimulus are they detecting ?



Try it. It’s not difficult. Then you can base your argument in experience.

Seems to me its somewhere in the vicinity of the same thing.

Faith in the unseen.

 

[Glow_worm]

Faith in the unseen.

I generally trust my compass.

 

[Toddy]

I generally trust my compass.

Until the magnetic pole moves a wee bit...... and it does.

 

[Glow_worm]

Just waiting for it to reverse...

 

[Toddy]

Just waiting for it to reverse...

That is going to be something !

 

[Pattree]

Once you’ve tried it you know:

1. That the rods swing without any conscious decision by the holder.

2. That they swing in specific ways and not just wobbling around.

3. That they swing in particular places and do so repeatedly.

Then you can begin to think about causes and effects. Until then you don’t believe in giraffes because you’ve never seen one.

I know what causes the rods to swing.
I do not know the cause of that cause.

I believe that there is a biological explanation.
I do not need a mystical explanation.


Edited to add:
As I said before: I only know of one person who couldn’t do it and I’m fairly certain that he wouldn’t let himself do it because it somehow ran counter to his religious beliefs. I have no idea what he was frightened of.

 

[Nice65]

Burden of proof is always on someone making a claim.

The claim: Dowsing is real and works
My position: I won’t believe it until there’s evidence when conducted in a scientific manner

Science is unfortunately deeply flawed, because we’re the ones who made it up, it only stands as a means of proof on a rather unstable and limited foundation because we don’t know very much at all. Galileo nearly died as a result of suggesting the earth rotates around the sun because of the egocentric view the earth was the centre of the universe. This was the science at the time, and it was wrong.

Life after death anyone? I’m not getting involved in scientifically proving anything, science is consistently proven wrong, quantum physics is turning it on its head, but I understand and respect many people need an anchor.

 

[Woody girl]

A few months ago, I lost a little gold stud earing while asleep in my bed. Didn't notice it untill the evening, so had no idea when I'd lost it at the time. I did search the bed, but couldn't find it. So decided to dowse with a pendulum to find out which room it was in.(I hadn't been outside that day, ) the pendulum told me it was in the bedroom, and everytime I dowsed a particular spot over my bed, it said "here" very decidedly. I gently stripped the bed, and it still said "here" so, after remaking the bed, I dowsed again. Still the same place. So I got a torch, and looked under the bed... and there, glinting in the torchlight, was my little gold stud earring.
How does it work? No idea, but it does. I've found many things that have gone awol this way.

One day soon after I moved into my present home, I was walking up the hall with the rods in my hands, and they crossed at a particular point. Intrigued, I tried it again. Same result.
A few weeks later when we put in a new hall carpet, we found that at that point, the hot water pipe that.ran from the boiler to the kitchen and bathroom ran under the floor at that particular point. As we have solid concrete floor, throughout the house, we had no idea, untill we pulled up the old carpet, that the pipe ran there, and there was a removable access for the pipe.
How did the rods know? I certainly didn't.

 

[Chris]

Science is unfortunately deeply flawed, because we’re the ones who made it up, it only stands as a means of proof on a rather unstable and limited foundation because we don’t know very much at all. Galileo nearly died as a result of suggesting the earth rotates around the sun because of the egocentric view the earth was the centre of the universe. This was the science at the time, and it was wrong.

Life after death anyone? I’m not getting involved in scientifically proving anything, science is consistently proven wrong, quantum physics is turning it on its head, but I understand and respect many people need an anchor.

What you’re describing here isn’t science. Science is the method by which we experiment in order to build the best explanations we have at any one time. It seems to me that you’re speaking of ‘science’ as an organisation of sorts, rather than simply an approach to testing and measuring things.

Doing science properly means that we only ever have the current best explanation for something, there’s no claim that it’s the final answer for everything. If different and/or better evidence comes along, then that becomes the best explanations we have. Being proved wrong is exciting, as it means something new is learned. But proved it must be.

Galileo wasn’t almost killed because of ‘science’, quite the opposite. He was tried by the Roman Catholic Inquisition as his theory was considered heresy.

The scientific method is agnostic of belief structures and I’m concerned that we risk turning the perfectly reasonable request that claims are evidenced, into a religious conversation which would stifle the sharing of opinions given the forum rules.

As I’ve said, I am genuinely open to the idea of it being something that can be evidenced by experiment, but until that point will remain sceptical. That is simply my standard for believing something to be true. Other here have said they experienced it first hand and whilst they don’t know why, it worked. I can’t argue with their personal experience, nor do I believe anyone here to be telling porkies. That is all part of the rich tapestry of life.

 

[William_Montgomery]

Galileo nearly died as a result of suggesting the earth rotates around the sun because of the egocentric view the earth was the centre of the universe. This was the science at the time, and it was wrong.

Could you expand on that a bit, as surely that's an example of the scientific method being persecuted by the spiritual leaders of the time?

 

[William_Montgomery]

What you’re describing here isn’t science. Science is the method by which we experiment in order to build the best explanations we have at any one time. It seems to me that you’re speaking of ‘science’ as an organisation of sorts, rather than simply an approach to testing and measuring things.

I agree. There seems to be a conflation between the scientific method and scientific institutions here.

Anecdotal evidence is interesting to a degree, but it's very far from any kind of proof. Taking the whole thing in good faith, I really don't understand the reluctance to shoulder the burden of proof. It seems like a missed opportunity to say the least.

 

[Pattree]

Could you expand on that a bit, as surely that's an example of the scientific method being persecuted by the spiritual leaders of the time?

No, Christian dogma was being defended against ANYTHING that might have undermined its message and thereby threatened its control or its political supremacy.

Interestingly Islam at the time was much more open to novel thinking and forging ahead in all sorts of fields using what were now recognise as data analysis and the scientific method, hence al-gebra and al-gorithms.

The origin of the word “heresy” Is “One who chooses.” Christianity could not allow people to choose their explanation of the universe because too much power was invested in the orthodoxy.

I agree with @Chris here, discovering that your thinking is wrong is exciting and motivating.

Current scientific investigation into “Reality” is wonderfully exciting and opens the door to many different commentaries including the possibility that there isn’t a reality.

Dowsing works for me but that is only the start. I have ideas as to the “how” but I’ll be happy to be wrong.

 

[TeeDee]

I understand Dowsing and geographical energy Leyline's ( or whatever is the acceptable title ) are very different subject material - but do people consider Leylines a similar ' it works , I don't know how' type topic??

 

[Toddy]

Seismology is the study of eatthquakes and seismic waves and how and where they move through and around the Earth.

There is enormous energy in earthquakes, it doesn't all dissipate, it often stays in tension. Plate tectonics, etc.,

Are 'ley lines' somehow part of that ?

 

[Glow_worm]

Leylines, or rather the more extensive subject of earth energies, are indeed yet another of those things which don't profit big business so remain outside mainstream science. Long may they do so.

There is a lot which goes of which western science can't and won't understand. As already mentioned, a western education, mentalities formed by the media and desire to fit in and follow the herd, and disconnection with nature and the landscape makes for a very blinkered black and white approach.