Dowsing for water.

[Zammo]

Just wondering if anyones ever attempted (and been successful) to dowse for water?

I think this would be a very handy skill for a bushcrafter.

Theres some nice info about dowsing here:

http://www.talland.org/dowsing.html

 

[crazyclimber]

used to do it with a couple of bent welding rods - useful for finding the line of underground drains. I'm sure Derren Brown or someone on TV rubbished the whole thing... at the end of the day though I don't know how or why it works, I just know it does!

 

[stevec]

i must confess to being quite sceptable about dowsing. however at a firework party last year i was mucking about with some sparklers and they crossed and then went parrallel again i did it several times and found a line where they crossed. i jokingly asked if there was any water round this part of their farm - answer underground stream followed the line i found.

not tried it since.

sc

 

[hiraeth]

Got a friend who does and has promised to show me how. I was always unsure wether it worked until i had a problem at work with water entering a building, problem i had was there was no sign of warer on the surface outside the building and without a lot of digging around it would have proved difficult to sort out. He came over with his rods and within a short time had traced back to a point he recond the water was coming from, and after a short dig i found water which was diverted to a land drain and the building dryed out.

 

[tom miller]

Richard Dawkins had a bit on one of his programmes (probably on youtube) about dowsing. Basically they did a blind test to see if the dowsers could do what they claimed, unsurprisingly they couldn't. I rank it alongside horoscopes and other airy fairy nonsense. Fine for a bit of fun but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

 

[firecrest]

Richard Dawkins had a bit on one of his programmes (probably on youtube) about dowsing. Basically they did a blind test to see if the dowsers could do what they claimed, unsurprisingly they couldn't. I rank it alongside horoscopes and other airy fairy nonsense. Fine for a bit of fun but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Skeptical as I am on things like this, to be fair on the dowsers issues were raised that they were being asked to find water in a bucket whislt stood on planks of wood and most complained they wouldnt be looking for this small amount of water, nor in buckets!

 

[tom miller]

Indeed, but they only said that after they had attempted to find it.

 

[Toddy]

I'm a hearty sceptic, but I've done it and this man makes his living at it too, so .....
http://www.geodivining.com/about.htm

I'm a bit disappointed though, I like Dawkins and his work.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[bushscout1]

I have not tried with hazel, however, I regularly use a couple of bent welding rods, and have in the past improvised with a couple of old bucket handles which I straightened and then bent at right angles.

I tend to use them on my bare skin although I have also used biro cases to remove contact with the rods (and tend to do this when getting others to have a go).

I have used them successfully many times to locate:

electricity cables
bt phone cables (very small with little electricity passing through)
gas pipes (copper & plastic)
water pipes (plastic & clay) (with & without flow)
and empty pipes (eg drains / disused)

I have also done some of the above at varying depths up to around 8-10 metres.

Admittedly I have also on occassion found rabbit warrens & tree roots.

Having searched the internet, I don't think anyone can explain what's happening - it's classed as a pseudo-science.

Personally, as a former physics student, I am a firm believer in scientific reason and hence was similarly sceptical about the whole process, however, I cannot argue with what's actually proven to work in reality.

I was first shown how to do it at work to locate some underground electrical cables beneath a large concrete yard, and at that time figured it must be to do with magnetism from the eddy currents surrounding the cables. However, since then I have (obviously) found the extent to what can be found and now wonder whether it's linked to disturbances in the ground (similar to the geo-phys. surveys done on groundforce)?

I now rely on them at work as a back-up to CAT scans, as I have found them to be more accurate / reliable (esp. when looking for BT phone cables) if digging trenches.

Never tried using them to find a natural underground water source, but am very interested in learning more.

 

[Mike Ameling]

I also cannot explain what or why it works, I just know that for some things it works for me.

I've used two pieces of wire bent L shaped and slipped into two short sections of metal tubing. I then hold the tubing with the long sections of the wire swinging freely out from them. I've located buried water lines, phone lines, and electical cable - when doing assorted construction around the farm. It worked for me as was pretty accurate.

But I have not tried locating natural underground water sources or places to drill wells.

I've seen some "tests" that were created to prove/disprove dowsing. But those "tests" were more designed (almost guarenteed) to have the dowser fail because of how they were set up. The people setting up the "tests" had already decided that dowsing was bunk, and had to make sure they proved it. So they designed their "tests" to come to the "appoved" results.

So it works for me. And I have friends that the same simple dowsing set-up doesn't work. Don't know why.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[John Fenna]

I do a bit of pendulum dowsing - I have no idea of how it realy works, but it does.
I am sending this message to an unkown number of people by computer and broad band conection - I have no idea how it works, but it does.......

 

[Toddy]

I do a bit of pendulum dowsing - I have no idea of how it realy works, but it does.
I am sending this message to an unkown number of people by computer and broad band conection - I have no idea how it works, but it does.......

Oh me too !

cheers,
Toddy

 

[stevec]

i seem to recall thinking about it that when dick strawbridge tried this with hazel the twigs almost snapped he was tring so hard to stop them moving

sc

 

[scrubcutter]

I've tried the bent coat hanger method and have found it 100% reliable for locating power cables. Indeed, we experimented with an electric lawnmower. When the mower was switched on at the plug (but not running of course) the rods crossed above the electric lead extending from the plug to the mower. When it was switched off the rods did not cross when we walked over the lead. You can try this at home but make sure there's no interference from other potential sources.

I have tried it on clear ground and have had the rods cross at the same point as a friend who also is able to dowse but we never investigated the cause - quite possibly a spring.

My guess is to experiment and find out what is detectable and not and I would assume that everyone is capable of dowsing, it being a physical phenomenon.

I certainly wouldn't go as far as some of the weirdo's out there who claim to imagine gold or coke cans in their mind and then go out and find gold and coke cans (and no, they haven't). That is illogical. I even have problems with people using Hazel sticks let along those you use less orthodox methods (some are plain weird). Unfortunately, as with all 'pseudo-sciences' there is the connection with UFO's, the Yeti, and the Loch Ness monster. While not poo-pooing a cause for these 'mysteries' (invariably mundane and normal), my (as well as others) experience of dowsing strongly suggests it is real and should be looked into properly. Hmm, now there's a thought - there'd be a Nobel Prize in it if I could prove the cause.

I declare that I am of sound(ish) mind and have my feet firmly on the ground and have no belief in anything that is not real.

Scrubbity


Ooh, I've just had a thought but I'll start a new thread instead of kidnapping Zammo's.

 

[gregorach]

When the mower was switched on at the plug (but not running of course) the rods crossed above the electric lead extending from the plug to the mower. When it was switched off the rods did not cross when we walked over the lead. You can try this at home but make sure there's no interference from other potential sources.

Did you ever try it without knowing whether the lead was switched on at the plug? I ask because it doesn't matter whether it's switched on at the plug or not - if it's not actually, on, it's not drawing any current. It doesn't make any difference whether it's the switch at the plug or the switch on the mower that's off, the circuit isn't closed.

And have you ever heard of the Ideomotor effect?

As for the whole dowsing idea, I don't think it's up to the sceptics to disprove it - it's up to the dowsers to prove it. Figure out exactly what you can and can't do and how to demonstrate it repeatably. If it really works, it must be possible to prove it. If the tests the sceptics design don't suit you, design better ones. People claim a very strong effect and very high success rates, so it should be easy to prove. The fact that nobody who really claims to be able to do it ever seems to want to design and conduct a really good test which would absolutely prove that there really is something to it makes me suspect that deep down they know it doesn't really work. I mean, if I believed I could do something like that, you'd better believe that I would want to prove it and understand how it works! I just can't understand how anyone could believe they have some inexplicable magical ability and yet not want to ask any of the obvious questions about it.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Did you ever try it without knowing whether the lead was switched on at the plug? I ask because it doesn't matter whether it's switched on at the plug or not - if it's not actually, on, it's not drawing any current. It doesn't make any difference whether it's the switch at the plug or the switch on the mower that's off, the circuit isn't closed.

And have you ever heard of the Ideomotor effect?

As for the whole dowsing idea, I don't think it's up to the sceptics to disprove it - it's up to the dowsers to prove it. Figure out exactly what you can and can't do and how to demonstrate it repeatably. If it really works, it must be possible to prove it. If the tests the sceptics design don't suit you, design better ones. People claim a very strong effect and very high success rates, so it should be easy to prove. The fact that nobody who really claims to be able to do it ever seems to want to design and conduct a really good test which would absolutely prove that there really is something to it makes me suspect that deep down they know it doesn't really work. I mean, if I believed I could do something like that, you'd better believe that I would want to prove it and understand how it works! I just can't understand how anyone could believe they have some inexplicable magical ability and yet not want to ask any of the obvious questions about it.

Thank goodness, a voice of reason.

 

[crazyclimber]

As for the whole dowsing idea, I don't think it's up to the sceptics to disprove it - it's up to the dowsers to prove it

If I had something to gain from spending the time doing that I may well try. For now I'll continue happily in my life knowing that, for me, it works.

I can see where you're coming from with the ideomotor effect. I'm not sure if I could do it with electrical cables - I've used it with water only - but consciously at least I used to genuinely have no idea where underground drains were located. Whether my unconscious mind was picking up on extremely subtle clues such as slightly discoloured grass or something I don't know but I could never consciously see anything. Be it ideomotor or something else though if it's accurate for you dowsing can be a useful 'skill' to have

 

[bushscout1]

As for the whole dowsing idea, I don't think it's up to the sceptics to disprove it - it's up to the dowsers to prove it.

I did at one point consider trying to identify how it works, but figured that rather than reinvent the wheel I'd start by searching the internet seeing as their are undoubtedly many more clever people out there with such skills & scientific tests that could explain what was happening...

The result... no explanation, but many reports of inconclusive tests & talk of psuedo-science.

Being a former A Level Physics student I er on the side of caution and what is proven / explainable in science (including the laws of mass attraction & quantum physics which are too large & too small to be able to see).

However, I cannot argue with what I can actually do, successfully, and on many occassions on many different sites. All I have been told is that there is something there (or to check if something's there) and hey presto I have identified paths which when excavated have identified cables / pipes. But there were generally no surface signs and I had no prior knowledge. I have even correctly identified a bt phone cable in a duct (not found by a regular CAT scanner) which was buried in an arc !?*

As crazyclimber said, if I had a good reason to try & prove it I would, but as it is I'm happy knowing I can do it when I need to.

The trouble with trying to prove it is simply that the sceptics wouldn't be happy with someone passing some tests - it's only natural that people want an explanable / reasoned theory as to how it works - and that's where it all gets difficult.

From experience I have shown many people how to do it and some have then successfully had a go whilst others have failed to get a reaction. Of those who get a reaction from the rods, some have strong reactions, whilst others get the slightest movement in the rods. I have heard that this can be linked to practise or that it is linked to your personal 'sensitivity' and that some people can identify shallow 'interferences' whilst others may identify deeper ones.

Its a shame that all those people contributing to this thread and the one suggesting an experiment are flung far & wide across our fair isle, otherwise it would be interesting to have met up, perhaps with some of the sceptics to try and either prove / disprove the art and maybe convert some of the 'non believers'.

 

[Tor helge]

I`m skeptic too all claims of paranormal skills. Also water dowsing.
But when I was at school to be a surveyor we had a job mapping water lines for a water supply company. There were some old lines there as well and no one who worked in the company new exactly where they lay.
They got this old man with a stick (clefted piece of willow I think) to find them.
We had a good laugh over this but mapped the lines according to the old mans findings.
Some time later the man from the water supply company who was overseeing our work was on the phone telling us to stop giggling. They had dug up some of these old water lines and surprise, surprise, the old man had found the excact location of the old water pipes.
I`m still a sceptic though .

Tor

 

[woodstock]

I do a bit of pendulum dowsing - I have no idea of how it realy works, but it does.
I am sending this message to an unkown number of people by computer and broad band conection - I have no idea how it works, but it does.......

Nor me but I have 2 one is crystal quartz and the other is made from citrine and I have used them for a long time with great effect