Dog killed barn owl

[spandit]

Woke up the other day to a text from my wife telling me our rescue dog had killed one of the pair of barn owls that had been seen for the first time in 30 years in our area. To say I was devastated was an understatement but I was confused how a noisy dog could sneak up on a bird with legendary hearing and eyesight.

Fortunately (sort of), the dead bird upon closer inspection turned out to be a chicken - don't know where it came from and not saying it's ideal but so glad it wasn't the owl! Pity I wasn't there as I would have eaten the chicken to save on waste. It's the third chicken fatality attributed to that dog, not sure how to train her out of it.

Do you think it's possible for a dog to catch an owl? All the Google searches show owls catching dogs! Watched a BBC documentary on them and they were truly amazing - completely silent flight, even with sensitive recording equipment. I would be really upset to lose our owls, even though they're not endangered, they make a spectacular and eery sight on our fields every day. I'd like to think that the lack of mowing & livestock has created an ideal hunting ground for them as the voles certainly seem to be in abundance!

 

[British Red]

How does the dog catch chickens? Its not running loose of your property Im sure so how is it killing other peoples livestock?

 

[OldJimbo]

Back in the day we were travelling across Canada to drop off the kids and pets in Alberta and then go on to visit my relatives who had come across to visit Ontario.

So we were camping in a tent and the young German Shepard and kittens were outside by the fire. I got woken by strange noises and so went to sit outside. All seemed calm with dog by itself and kittens in a pile, embers of fire still good. So I sat by the fire too, since with the cold of night all the bugs were gone. How could things be so calm yet I got woken up by something? Then I noticed the two owls in the nearby tree. My concern was with bears, so despite the apparent calm, I sat and admired the bright stars, because something had woken me. Suddenly an owl swooped down on the kittens and was met by the teeth of the dog which went from looking like a rug to suddenly rising six feet in the air as if by magic. What had awoken me was the snap of his jaws. Twenty minutes later it was repeated with the other owl. I watched incredulously as the owls took turns at trying for the kittens - because I didn't believe what I was seeing. then I moved the pets into the tent so we could get some sleep. While he didn't get an owl, he had a collection of feathers bitten from them which I kept for years.

Unfortunately our dog, "King" was the ultimate hunter. So in Alberta both my ex-wife and I witnessed how he stalked beaver and then from a high bank ran out and leaped on them in the water, killing them with a neck breaking bite. So I got him out of there before my irate relatives put a bullet into him. I'm quite aware that that takes some believing!

 

[spandit]

How does the dog catch chickens? Its not running loose of your property Im sure so how is it killing other peoples livestock?

The first one was in a friend's garden, that's when we found out she was a killer. That chicken died a few days later from shock...

The second one was a rooster. She broke through/jumped over a fence to next door and he was loose in the garden. That boundary has since been secured.

The third one, I've no idea. The neighbours with the cockerel never replaced him (the others had succumbed to foxes before we moved there) so it wasn't theirs and the kill site was the other side of the property anyway so the chicken had strayed onto our land from somewhere but don't know from where.

The documentary showed eagle owls attacking wolves, they're plucky things!

 

[cbr6fs]

For training you really need access to fenced off chickens.

Find out what motivates your dog, usually it's play or treats.
Walk the dog next to the chickens and the split second it starts looking at them, distract it with the motivation.

You're really looking to distract it before it locks on and starts getting obsessive, if you're too late then walk the dog away and start again.
Of course the chickens should be fenced in and the dog on a lead.

You are looking to get the dog interested in the motivation over the chickens, once this is accomplished slowly withdraw the motivation.

I've also found it really really useful to teach my dogs the stop command.
I usually start off doing it when retrieving a ball, i'll give the command "stop" and the dog stops in it's tracks.
Has come in useful so many times over the years and would be useful in this situation.


I have no problem believing a dog can easily catch and kill a chicken, our Jack Russell catches and kills rats, a chicken would be slow in comparison.
She has been close to catching a few grouse in the past before i trained her out of it.

 

[santaman2000]

For training you really need access to fenced off chickens.

Find out what motivates your dog, usually it's play or treats.
Walk the dog next to the chickens and the split second it starts looking at them, distract it with the motivation.

You're really looking to distract it before it locks on and starts getting obsessive, if you're too late then walk the dog away and start again.
Of course the chickens should be fenced in and the dog on a lead.

You are looking to get the dog interested in the motivation over the chickens, once this is accomplished slowly withdraw the motivation.

I've also found it really really useful to teach my dogs the stop command.
I usually start off doing it when retrieving a ball, i'll give the command "stop" and the dog stops in it's tracks.
Has come in useful so many times over the years and would be useful in this situation.


I have no problem believing a dog can easily catch and kill a chicken, our Jack Russell catches and kills rats, a chicken would be slow in comparison.
She has been close to catching a few grouse in the past before i trained her out of it.

I was thinking of a similar method using negative reinforcement. I.E. a shock collar triggered whenever the dog approaches the chicken.

 

[cbr6fs]

I was thinking of a similar method using negative reinforcement. I.E. a shock collar triggered whenever the dog approaches the chicken.

I do not agree with training any animal using negative reinforcement and my opinion on anyone using shock collars to train dogs is probably best not mentioned on a family forum.

I've worked with dogs that have been abused (i consider shock collars abuse) and the mental damage done by negative reinforcement and shock collars is terrible and takes months if not years to rectify, this on a strong minded dog.
If you were to carry out this sort of training on a nervous dog it's likely it'll never be the same after.

It's imperative that the training is swayed to each dog, some dogs are motivated by different things, some prefer treats, others play, some just want to please the trainer and seek praise.
If you use negative reinforcement on a dog that seeks praise you've effectively shot yourself in the foot as a trainer and dog psychological damage to the dog it's likely not going to recover from.

Fact is positive reinforcement works, it works better for the dog and doesn't leave the dog with psychological problems.
If a person is not able to train using positive reinforcement than they shouldn't be training, simple as.

 

[Macaroon]

I do not agree with training any animal using negative reinforcement and my opinion on anyone using shock collars to train dogs is probably best not mentioned on a family forum.

I've worked with dogs that have been abused (i consider shock collars abuse) and the mental damage done by negative reinforcement and shock collars is terrible and takes months if not years to rectify, this on a strong minded dog.
If you were to carry out this sort of training on a nervous dog it's likely it'll never be the same after.

It's imperative that the training is swayed to each dog, some dogs are motivated by different things, some prefer treats, others play, some just want to please the trainer and seek praise.
If you use negative reinforcement on a dog that seeks praise you've effectively shot yourself in the foot as a trainer and dog psychological damage to the dog it's likely not going to recover from.

Fact is positive reinforcement works, it works better for the dog and doesn't leave the dog with psychological problems.
If a person is not able to train using positive reinforcement than they shouldn't be training, simple as.

Exactly that ^, anybody using negative reinforcement methods on any animal should have them applied to themselves, and to a much higher level. I don't like to think what I'd do to somebody I found using anything like a shock collar; IMO, it should be an offence carrying a jail term.

 

[Robbi]

Goodness, I wish I was that good at training dogs.

Driving cars

Riding motorbikes

Camping out

Airport security

Guns

Knives

Navigation

Fishing

Hunting

Native Americans

Litter control

Bows and arrows

4 x 4

In fact anything that anyone else has ever done

Fair play to you mate, you have an opinion on everything. ( as is your right )

 

[Macaroon]

Who's that one aimed at, Robbi?

 

[Robbi]

Not you Mac

I just need to type faster.

 

[Macaroon]

No probs Robbi, all understood mate

 

[HillBill]

An outdoor based, well travelled life, with an interest in native cultures??...(your typical older 'shrafter/outdoorsman). How many of us don't have experience over a multitude of fields?

Not you Mac

I just need to type faster.

 

[Blundstoned Love]

Do you think it's possible for a dog to catch an owl?

Only if the owl was old or sick. and even then the dog might lose an eye for it's trouble.

 

[Disco1]

We have the opposite problem the chickens chase the dog. If the dog is sitting in the garden while the chickens are out they will come and sit with him. Its funny really.

 

[sandbender]

"...Fair play to you mate, you have an opinion on everything. ( as is your right )..."

Who's that one aimed at, Robbi?

No taking aim at anyone please.

 

[santaman2000]

Goodness, I wish I was that good at training dogs.

Driving cars

Riding motorbikes

Camping out

Airport security

Guns

Knives

Navigation

Fishing

Hunting

Native Americans

Litter control

Bows and arrows

4 x 4

In fact anything that anyone else has ever done

Fair play to you mate, you have an opinion on everything. ( as is your right )

I have very little personal experience riding motorcycles. Some, but not much. Motorcycle endorsement is still on my license as is Class B CDL.

 

[santaman2000]

I do not agree with training any animal using negative reinforcement and my opinion on anyone using shock collars to train dogs is probably best not mentioned on a family forum.

I've worked with dogs that have been abused (i consider shock collars abuse) and the mental damage done by negative reinforcement and shock collars is terrible and takes months if not years to rectify, this on a strong minded dog.
If you were to carry out this sort of training on a nervous dog it's likely it'll never be the same after.

It's imperative that the training is swayed to each dog, some dogs are motivated by different things, some prefer treats, others play, some just want to please the trainer and seek praise.
If you use negative reinforcement on a dog that seeks praise you've effectively shot yourself in the foot as a trainer and dog psychological damage to the dog it's likely not going to recover from.

Fact is positive reinforcement works, it works better for the dog and doesn't leave the dog with psychological problems.
If a person is not able to train using positive reinforcement than they shouldn't be training, simple as.

Exactly that ^, anybody using negative reinforcement methods on any animal should have them applied to themselves, and to a much higher level. I don't like to think what I'd do to somebody I found using anything like a shock collar; IMO, it should be an offence carrying a jail term.

Not my first choice either TBH. And agreed, it's a method very easy for most of us to screw up. However the OP has described a behavior that will eventually get the dog killed by an irate chicken farmer if left uncorrected.

I also disagree that the dog is doing it as a form of play. Most chicken killing dogs are responding to prey drive. Positive reinforcement ain't gonna break that. If as you infer, it might be a "strong willed" dog and, as I stated, it's reacting to a strong prey drive, then it's unlikely any method will break it. That leaves three basic choices:
1) resort to drastic training measures as a last resort
2) take very strong measures to keep the dog confined to your own land, or
3) get rid of it.

My personal choice would be #2

Positive reinforcement is for reinforcing behavior you want them to repeat. Negative reinforcement is to break them of behavior you don't want them to repeat (extreme negative reinforcement is for a last resort to an extreme situation) Same as raising children; yes I spanked my daughter when she warranted it and still spank the grandkids when they do (rare occasions in both instances)

 

[spandit]

I'm not convinced positive reinforcement would work either but don't want to resort to using shock tactics! We try to keep her in and when we get our own chickens, we'll keep her out, as we would for foxes. She's killed pheasant before and goes completely deaf when she goes on the offensive. She just likes killing things. Unfortunate, really but instincts are powerful things.

I reckon the only way she'd kill the owl is by cutting off the food supply by eating all the voles - the state of my garden/fields testifies to her success

 

[British Red]

That's a tricky situation, but, as santaman says, if she can't be prevented from killing stock, then, as I'm sure you know, a neighbour is entitled to shoot her to protect their stock. Could lead to much I'll feeling all round but realistically its the same as sheep worrying. If you can't retrain her, confining her to a large run when she is not on a lead may be the only option.