Does smart wool really not itch?

[Lurch]

I pretty much exclusively wear smartwool socks and have done for over a year now. They're pretty good and non-itchy, I'm a stinky sweaty footed get and these are great for combating that. I used to be wool phobic but these are no problem for me.
I've also got a number of pairs of the smartwool underskanks, they're great for stopping my chubby thighs rubbing together and no itch. My only reservation is the durability of these. They are thin and light = delicate. I've just chucked my first pair out, but I kinda put my foot through them.

 

[pteron]

Merino is the mutt's nuts.
I initially bought a Howies NBL (natural base layer) 100% Merino Wool long sleeve top to wear as a safe base layer under my firejacket.

They are fantastic and I have not suffered from any itching problems at all.
Howies recently had a sale and I bought two more NBLs for £27.50 each

They only have Small size left now:
Howies NBL

Hey thanks for the link, I'm going to order one of their NBL range to try it out.

 

[BlueTrain]

Ahh but I do...their wool underwear is great but SmartWool is just better. Filson coats, vests, shirts, sox, bags, all make the grade...but nice as their underwear is the SmartWool is a cut above.

Although I don't have any of their waxed garments, I have several other Filson items. However, there are other American companies out there making equally fine woolen goods at more reasonable prices (and some even more expensive). Naturally, they are all up North somewhere, probably all in New England or Minnesota. I have a few things from Bimidji that have been more than satisfactory and that's where I buy my Windsor Wear long johns. In addition to their own products they sell other companies things, including Filson.

 

[arctic hobo]

(I asked earlier about how much moisture smartwool absorbs, and I got the answer: "It does take a long time to dry.")

That's not quite true mate. If I may quote, you said: "Is it true what they say about it being useless because it takes a very long time to dry out?"
And I replied: "It does take a long time to dry - but there are two advantages. Firstly, it's very hard to get very wet through, unless it's pouring or you hold it underwater. The wool clothes I have stay dry if I fall in a stream, providing I get up again fairly quickly. Also, it doesn't melt by a fire (not like those fancy plastic fibres!), so it's a lot easier to dry."
I actually thought you were talking about real wool there though.

Compare this to cotton, silk, and wool which can and will absorb 40% water (and more)This makes them heavy, it bogs you down in high-pace activities.

That may be true, but under different cirumstances. Cotton very quickly absorbs all your body's moisture. Wool on the other hand absorbs very little indeed. The only way to make wool absorb a lot of water is to wear it in a downpour, or to hold it underwater. Splashes and body moisture do not make wool wet - and that's a fact

 

[Sickboy]

I've been lucky enough to try most types of base layer available in the uk, by far the best are those made from merino wool, it is very expensive material to use but it will outlast ALL other materials in any situation, the malden mills polartec range of fabrics use a number of coatings to make them work better (hence a slight waxy feel), fine in warm weather for short periods, but extended trips cause a real drop in performance, a good base layer should be as good on the 5th day as the first, dirt really does effect it.
This is where good quality wool base layers come into there own, they stay servicable far longer and tend not to stink so quickly.
The other draw back i've found with synthetic fabrics (except modern helly hansen) is they tend to lose shape/fit, the lycra tends to stretch a little but the synthetic fibres and seams don't, sure this is the cause but could be wrong .
Tried a norwegian army shirt on my last trip from the army surplace, a waste of £10, one of only a few regretable purchases, warm until you sweat then thats it, no wicking, no warmth and took a century to dry

 

[arctic hobo]

Tried a norwegian army shirt on my last trip from the army surplace, a waste of £10, one of only a few regretable purchases, warm until you sweat then thats it, no wicking, no warmth and took a century to dry

Sorry to hear that. The norgee shirt I think is pretty popular on this forum. It is cotton, which is bad news in front of a fire or if you're exercising hard, but it's windproof and warm. Ideal for a chilly morning parade, I hear

 

[addyb]

Hobo,

Mmm...you're right about the wool being hard to get wet, and keeping you warm at the same time. But, you said it yourself, it's heavy when wet. I'm a little guy, only 5'9, 120lbs, and I don't really like packing around wet clothes.

hee hee

 

[Schwert]

I do not find that the SmartWool top gets heavy with sweat at all. I find it is comfortable to wear during high activity when loads of moisture is passing through AND when I stop. If it is cold enough my poly tops soaked surface starts to freeze, but the wool top does not.

Most of the time I am skiing around here where temperatures are quite mild and moisture handling is paramount in my first layer. My wool top is vastly superior to any type of poly top I have ever worn around here. At home (Montana) were it does get quite a bit colder the difference at a rest stop is very noticible. At no time do I feel that the top is soaked like a cotton tee shirt would feel and at no time do I have a layer of liquid water on the surface of my top like I do with a poly top.

These garments are not like a heavy wool sweater that if soaked in prolonged rain gets heavy. That is just not how they tend to work. Moisture is obviously retained by the wool but most seems to pass through as a gas and NOT condense on the outer surface like it does on poly.

If your poly underwear is moving water to insulation layers you are carrying that around anyway.

When skiiing I do not usually have insulation on top of my ski top...either the top alone or the top plus a windproof. When I stop I usually pull a fleece or wool sweater over whatever I am wearing...(top-windproof-sweater) unless the wind is strong when I will take the time to place the windproof on the outside.

The degree to which the SmartWool top has increased my enjoyment of the day is just unbelievable. I would not trade my wool top for anything.

Lesser activities which do not generate as much sweat the top is great too, but for me the high activity--high moisture activities is where this wool top shines. Vastly more comfortable for me than poly.

Same comparison I can make for wool sox vs poly sox...wool always feel much drier and comfortable to me.

I just checked the SmartWool site and I think I am going to have to get a pair of lightweight bottoms for this year. I am not sure if my top is light or mid weight...but I am guessing light.

 

[ChrisKavanaugh]

Addressing the question of drying time is subjective. Bushcraft is supposed to be about SLOWING DOWN. How many of us pack microwave ovens? Extreme winter bushcraft always emphasizes spare clothing, aka as clean and dry. It may horrify ultralight advocates and isn't cheap, but I pack spare thermals along with shirts, trousers,socks etc. One set is for active use and the second for sleeping. I've never had a problem with either drying out between shifts.

 

[addyb]

No, I'm sorry, you guys are right. Bushcraft IS about "slowing down."

But, I'm simply not a bushcrafter. I'm a climber, here in the Rockies and Coast Range in BC. When I'm not climbing in the winter, I hike in the summer. And when I'm not doing that, I go to college.

I guess that's why I have such a different approach to things when I post, like how modern my mode of thinking is. (The only OLD piece of gear that I own is my Ventile anorak, everything else I wear is synthetic.) And what I really enjoy about this place, is that you guys always offer different opinions to whatever I post, and it's cool because I can use your ideas as a sounding board for my experiences.

I'm not one of those those guys that goes out carrying a hundred pound pack, but at the same time I stay very far away from old-fashioned materials because I've seen what can happen to a climber wearing them.

When I was 18, I was on a multi-day hike, in the Fall season. Well, the rain hit us pretty hard, and one of the chaps on the hike was wearing cotton and wool clothing. We were all pretty soaked, but I was okay becaus I had my polypro on. Well we got woken up in the middle of the night because the chap was crying and shivering. My Dad and I got up, and had a look at him, and my Dad said "Holy F*ck, in 30+ years of this, I have NEVER seen a worse case of hypothermia." So I got my stove going, we dumped some hot liquid into him, stripped him, and put him in a sleeping bag between two other chaps. I can't even begin to explain how bad the weather was, there was simply no way to get a fire started, and no time.

Anyway, he made it out alive, and I recall someone saying "If we hadn't got to him when we did, we would've needed a body bag."

To be honest, I still shudder thinking about that, it was a messed up trip. And that experience has made me adament about not wearing gear like that. But then again, that wasn't bushcraft. It was a completely different situation.

A.

 

[gregorach]

He was trying to sleep in wet kit? That's nothing to do with the fabrics themselves - that's just daft. Always carry a dry kit, never sleep in your wet kit. Next you'll be telling me he was wearing jeans inside his bag.

Still, at least he was still shivering...

 

[ChrisKavanaugh]

I am acquainted with the editor of a firearms magazine. One of the more 'interesting' queries involved a man complaining about a commercial hunting load failing to fire. It seems our nimrod went to Montana in winter and decided to try his luck early in the morning. I forget what insane sub zero temperature the tent thermometer read, but simple physics kicked in and the primer failed to detonate. My friend questioned why anybody in their right mind would even venture outside to begin with If a simple chemical unit like a primer can't operate why would a complex chemical unit like a grown man try to? All clothing, all kit in fact has a performance envelope. It doesn't take a mathematical representation on graph paper for us to know when the finest wool made of unborn musk oxen or the latest wonder material from Dow Jones can't give anymore performance. An ETS member from Australia is a member of an ocean kayaking club. I am paraphrasing a very asture comment from their site " Always buy the very best equipment you can, but but never make an outdoor decision based on it's possession alone. " We've strayed a bit from the question of Smartwool itching and drying out, but like randy and My favourite clothing vendor says " might as well have the best"

 

[Schwert]

addyb,

You may be interested in looking at a short gear review posted at a local mountain shop.

Gear Review by Bart Paull

Just got back from a fast and light two day ascent of Denali's Cassin Ridge. I wore a lot of gear from Pro Mountain Sports, including many Wild Things garments and Smartwool underwear. The Smartwool was definitely the best type of material I have tried for next–to–skin insulation. I also had a Patagonia Capilene top that I used for over 3 weeks on Denali in all types of conditions, comparing it directly to the Smartwool.

The Smartwool shirt wicked much faster and dried much quicker than the Capilene underwear, eliminating the constant clammy feeling I have always associated with Capilene underwear. At the beginning of the trip, I was rotating the layer next to my skin: Smartwool until I sweated and then Capilene until the Smartwool had dried. I soon realized that no leap–frogging was necessary at all. The Smartwool Ziptop dried so quickly that all one needs for basically all conditions is a Smartwool top and a lightweight Wild Things windshirt. Trust me, wool is simply better than capilene for the first layer, end of discussion.

Fast and light ascents, especially in arctic environments, demand maximum efficiency from clothing systems. Trust Jim's advice. Buy the Smartwool and the Primaloft garments, toss the Capilene and fleece, and get hot!

This can be found at Pro Mountain Sports here in Seattle, under "Clothing/SmartWool/Men's Lightweight Crew"

For me, during high activity or for bushcraft a SmartWool top is a better choice than the poly tops. My experience has been very much the same as Bart's.

http://www.promountainsports.com/clothing.shtml


I actually do not see SmartWool johns as Old Technology..but as new technology.

 

[gregorach]

Well, I've ordered a 100% Marino top from Howies on the strength of this thread (they are going cheap) - we'll see how it goes...

Honestly, I'm like a woman with a shoe craving sometimes.

 

[Schwert]

This whole thread gave me the push too. I decided to pick up some SmartWool johns for the season over at Pro Mountain....nice little shop but just one problem.....they were closing out all SmartWool stock at half off....

The owner of the shop is moving more towards IceBreaker goods and some new Devold thin wool as he has had some quality issues with SmartWool. I decided to try a thin Ibex top that was also half price and a full-price IceBreaker 200g/m2 short-sleeve top.

I picked up a lightwt and midwt SmartWool bottom and a midwt zip top.

There goes the cash for my next Ingram

 

[addyb]

Schwert,

Thanks for posting the article! I'm going to stop dissing smartwool now, because everyone likes their own kit. I plan on sticking with my Lifa baselayer though, because it works for me, and I'm satisfied with it. If you having something that works for you, then that's all that matters.

Smartwool for you, polypropylene for me! Happy hunting!

Adam

 

[Schwert]

Adam,

I totally appreciate your choices and preferences as there is a lot of differences in peoples comfort in different locals, different climates and different activities.

My choices in underwear have changed dramatically since I started out...each one getting progressively better with the advent of new materials.

As a kid I used Duofold cotton/wool laminated thermals. As I got more active skiing, climbing, and hiking I switched to cotton net or thick wool (Canadian Black Wool--super itchy), then poly net and Lifa polypro, then on to Patagonia capiliene or Bjyrne poly net which were my choices up until last fall when I found my SmartWool top.

I think the poly changes were dramatically better then the Duofold and cotton net and certainly more comfortable than the thick scratchy wool, but I was absolutely amazed by the feel and efficiency of the new wool.

I think lots of people will not even try the new wool as they are afraid of itch or whatever, but I am very glad I tried it.

 

[pteron]

This whole thread gave me the push too. I decided to pick up some SmartWool johns for the season over at Pro Mountain....nice little shop but just one problem.....they were closing out all SmartWool stock at half off....

Do they ship to the UK?

 

[Roy's Badger]

Got to say, the Ullefrote stuff is tip-top. Got given a set by a bloke with nice hair, and used it on a survival course in Norway. Tried it with undercrackers on first because I worried about the itch factor- what-a-mistake-a-to-make-a. The thermals don't itch at all, but the cotton underpants sure get cold...

 

[Schwert]

pteron,

I bought just about everything in the shop. They have a few pieces left in smaller sizes, but I cannot recall exactly what they have. It is such a small shop they may ship stuff over without a lot of hassle. I would recommend you email them and see if any of their remaining stock suits you. If they do not want to ship, just charge the items and I will pick them up and ship them over.

http://www.promountainsports.com/index.html

Check out their shipping page for details and email address.