Devil's advocate

[Voivode]

Meh. Crappy spelling and grammar get my goat too; I'm hardly perfect and I won't hold anybody to any kind of gold standard, but there are posts out there that are clearly written by people who aren't even trying. We live in a world where being able to communicate clearly and precisely is important.

You know what I hate? The fact that there is a search button, but nobody seems to use it. Every freaking week there is somebody dragging out a subject that was whipped to death a month previous. I subscribe to at least one other forum that has zero tolerance for that sort of thing; if your question can be found with a search, the thread is locked and you are scolded for your lack of good sense in not wasting other people's time rehashing the same thing over and over.

Edit: So, gear vs skills. Of course gear is discussed on the internet over skills; it is an inherently isolating medium and one cannot learn how to track or hunt or bowdrill or meditate or weave or whatever without real life practice and guidance. No number of postings on a message board will replace a week with a master, and even if there is a master (or two or ten) on here, words don't convey skills as well as guidance in real life. So we talk about our favourite toys and the best books to learn from.

 

[bambodoggy]

there are posts out there that are clearly written by people who aren't even trying.

That's so funny, you hop off the fence there and tell us all what you're thinking!

You know what I hate? The fact that there is a search button, but nobody seems to use it. Every freaking week there is somebody dragging out a subject that was whipped to death a month previous.

Are we having a bad day today?

I'm not sure you meant to but that post really amused me, thanks

Cheers,

Bam.

 

[Mikey P]

That's a bit out of order Mikey P. Not everyone can spell as well as others or have a good command of the English language even if they are English. Peoples vocabularies are vastly different even amongst native British or 'English as a first language' speaking countries. How do any of us know they may not have dyslexia?

I've said things in the past on here that I maybe shouldn't have, and have apologised accordingly. I've also apologised even when I feel I was justified but just done it anyway to keep the peace, but slating peoples spelling abilty or otherwise inability to be unable to do something not as good as others isn't really cricket.

Fair point but I don't think it is out of order. What I'm trying to say is that people should make an effort! A lot of it is sheer laziness - and it's that which I am criticising. We all make mistakes and no-one expects everyone to be at the same standard. However, there is no point in writing something where no-one actually understands what you're trying to say/ask for.

We could get into a whole debate here about lexicography and the way that language evolves (or devolves, depending on your point of view). A forum is a communication resource, for gaining knowledge and exchanging ideas so we can then go out and do something. I just want people to write clearly so that we can all gain something from it. I honestly don't think that's too much too ask.

You mention that you speak German and Japanese - how difficult would it be for you to read a badly written paragraph in those languages as a (possible) non-native speaker?

If someone can't write reasonable English, fair enough. If someone won't write reasonable English, then that is grounds for criticism.

Mind you, I think Voivode said it better! Good rant! Made me laugh too. Heh-heh - I think s/he certainly fell out of the wrong side of a hammock this morning.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Voivode,
Good post You aren't the only one who thinks that way.

 

[tedw]

Engage "Rant Mode" (click)

"Engaged and locked"

Topics - write and read whatever you want – if you find it boring, read something else. I always use the “New Posts” button and the preview function so I can just ignore the stuff that does not interest me – like the millionth “whats the best knife?” thread. Tips might help, but you can’t learn skills from a website, book, DVD or anything but doing it. Things are easy to discuss and every hobby has its own kit that most people love talking about – look at any other specialist interest site or magazine, they’re stuffed with kit chatter – plus, when contemplating a purchase, I am interested in the real experiences of actual users to guide, not dictate, my purchases.

Spelling – I’m no “Colon the Grammarian” but it irritates me too, and does get in the way of communication. Everyone makes the odd mistake but, for heaven’s sake, if you’re unsure, just write your post in Word and use the Spellchecker before you submit it!

Searching – agreed, the same topics reappear regularly and this could be avoided if people used the Search button – please, please do!

Ray – I’ve met him, briefly, and I thought he was a decent bloke . I enjoy his programmes and think he’s done a huge amount to foster a positive attitude to nature and the outdoors lifestyle. He’s not God, and this tendency to worship him is just weird – the “what kind of underpants does RM wear ?“ thread just stunned me – but so’s the opposite tendency to tear him down (and what’s with the “fat” stuff – matey joshing is one thing but sometimes this just gets offensive”).

Replies – don’t bother. Pan Viovode got it right but this is my rant. There are many like it but this one is mine. My rant is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my rant is useless. Without my rant I am useless.

Disengage "Rant Mode" (click)

"Nice guy mode engaged. Lip safety unlocked"
“Sigh, that's better” – back to work

Ted W

 

[spamel]

the “what kind of underpants does RM wear ?“ thread just stunned me

Must have missed that one!! Was there an eventual consensus??!!

 

[Too Much Kit To Carry]

Must have missed that one!! Was there an eventual consensus??!!

Merino and Possum fur?


Phil.

 

[spamel]

So long as no one mentions G string!!!



Ooops, I just did!!

 

[Silverback]

If you really want to put your tracking skills to the test then use the search button - its bleedin awful and one of the worst search functions I have ever come across. It drags up a multitude of obscure posts leaving you the painstaking task of trawling through each one in the hope of finding what you are looking for. I am no expert and don't know what alternative methods are out there but I don't think Google needs to lose any sleep just yet

 

[Tony]

There’s considerably more threads on non kit subjects than kit ones so it’s no an accurate statement to make that there’s more interest in kit than the other aspects of bushcraft.

The forums are set up in such a way that it’s easy to not go into the kit based areas, the forums for skills, plants, animals, food etc have a greater focus as demonstrated by the multiple forums that cater for the different subjects. There’s always going to be the impression that kit is talked about more, there’s always new kit and no matter what some people use, the majority of people do use kit, be it a knife or a tarp, clothing, stoves etc. This is generally part of the outdoor life, the hero’s that many quote as examples of woodcraft skills often used the most up to date materials and equipment available to them.

Anyway, as has been said before, don’t look at the forums that you’re not interested in, they are easy to avoid especially the kit stuff that’s all contained in a small area. Do contribute to help grow the areas that you have an interest in, those with enthusiasm for a subject can help others capture an interest.

There’s thousands of people that use this place now and they all have different opinion, experiences, levels of confidence, needs and environmental considerations, I don’t think anyone can really say that’s good for everyone.

Get stuck in on the areas you like, forget the rest, put effort into growing the forums you enjoy, take out what you need to enjoy yourself and learn more. Definitely don’t get hung up on subjects you’re not interested in or perceptions that you have about other people.

The site is there to enjoy, make the most of it.

 

[spamel]

I don't think the problem is with the search function at all, but with the users starting threads with a title that has absolutlely nothing to do with the content. If you want people to look at a RM Woodlore knife on eBay, write "RM Woodlore knife on eBay" as the thread title. Then, when somebody wants to search for a Woody knife, they know that that thread is about one for sale on eBay and may not be the exact info they are after, they can skip it and go on to the next thread thrown up by the search function.

A thread entitled "Check this out!!" doesn't tell us what the thread is about at all, and normally there is just a link, you don't even know what it's gonna be and you waste ages on a dial up connection linking to a you tube film on cutting your toenails with a machete! Wow, cheers for that link!

 

[Silverback]

My beef with it is that it only provides you with the entire thread link which you then have to trawl through to find what you want. It would be handy if it at least selected the post containing the search word to narrow it down a bit. I have tried to track down posts in the past using keywords but have ended up giving up when the search function returns 20 odd threads with about 12 pages of posts in each (maybe a slight over exaggeration but you catch my drift )

 

[spamel]

Look at the top of the thread and there is a search this thread function. I've never actually used it but it would make searching a long thread much easier.

 

[Marts]

Aaahhh...The good ol' kit thread debate.

 

[Voivode]

Mind you, I think Voivode said it better! Good rant! Made me laugh too. Heh-heh - I think s/he certainly fell out of the wrong side of a hammock this morning.

It is, as tedw pointed out, Pan Voivode; my wife would be Pani. I think. My Polish is very weak while she is a native speaker.

I was feeling a bit cranky with the seemingly eternal flood of crap that is yon Internet yesterday. Sifting the grain from the chaff is sometimes spirit crushing, and these things only increase the amount of time it takes to glean meaningful things and get on with life.

Alright, I'm okay now. Carry on.

 

[ScottC]

Meh. Crappy spelling and grammar get my goat too; I'm hardly perfect and I won't hold anybody to any kind of gold standard, but there are posts out there that are clearly written by people who aren't even trying. We live in a world where being able to communicate clearly and precisely is important.

You know what I hate? The fact that there is a search button, but nobody seems to use it. Every freaking week there is somebody dragging out a subject that was whipped to death a month previous. I subscribe to at least one other forum that has zero tolerance for that sort of thing; if your question can be found with a search, the thread is locked and you are scolded for your lack of good sense in not wasting other people's time rehashing the same thing over and over.

Edit: So, gear vs skills. Of course gear is discussed on the internet over skills; it is an inherently isolating medium and one cannot learn how to track or hunt or bowdrill or meditate or weave or whatever without real life practice and guidance. No number of postings on a message board will replace a week with a master, and even if there is a master (or two or ten) on here, words don't convey skills as well as guidance in real life. So we talk about our favourite toys and the best books to learn from.

This is a DISCUSSION FORUM. It is here for exactly that, to discuss issues relevant to bushcraft and the outdoors. I really hate it when people get moaned at by others because they haven't used the search feature first - if it's not here for people to ask questions then what is it for?? I know for a fact several members were really put off as newbies after they had certain members, even the senior/staff members, getting quite aggressive and having a go because they were asking questions which had been asked a lot of the time before without searching first. The search feature on here is crap anyway, 80% of the time using it I get an error saying a word is too short or too common, not very useful if you want to search "cheap axe" etc.

The whole point of this place is to talk, ask questions and share knowledge, if people can't do that you might aswell close the place down, there is not an endless supply of unique topics to talk about, things are bound to come up repeatedly.

Bringing people up on bad spelling/grammar is really bad form IMO - bushcrafter's are by necessity very practical and usually quite good with their hands, indicating they may have a more practical approach to things rather than an acadeimic one.

 

[spamel]

I suppose it depends on the person and their mood at that time. I know a few times I've seen a question asked and I tend to answer if I can, even though I know there was a post similar or the same a few months back. Things get skimmed over sometimes and threads get missed, so I will help if I can.

There have been a couple of times when I couldn't be bothered though, and I know that's not the attitude but it was how I felt at the time. I sometimes link to a thread or just tell them the info, but everyone has their off days and if it is a thread that keeps cropping up, it does get a bit tedious!

How many times has "What knife should I buy for bushcraft?" or similar come up? We all know that for a basic user, cheap and cheerful but works wonders, a Mora. Still, the threads keep popping up from the newer members as if there has been zero effort to find out and do they honestly think they are the first people to ask that question after however many years BCUK has been online? I don't think so!!

Do they want me to come out and put their basha up, or are they gonna find out how to do that for themselves? It's not hard to spend a few minutes, a quick cursory check with the search feature, if no joy then post along the lines of "I've had a quick search on the site but had no joy, do you know.....". How hard is that?

I guess I need to do one now as I think people are just getting lazy and it's time to cull the herd a bit. If you have a genuine question and think it hasn't been asked before, then post it. If you didn't have the common decency to see if the topic had been discussed 10 times before, stand by for a bit of grief off of other members!

:aargh4:

 

[Goose]

I have got to say that I think it is out of order to pull up spelling and grammar,usually , not everyone can spell, I know there are a few dyslexic members on here and they don't want to have to apologise for it all the time, would you? It can be a big achievement for some to write a sentence at all never mind worrying about if someone is going to critisise them for using incorrect grammar or mis spelling a word.
Put yourself in that position and think how much it can take to post knowing that thousands of people may read what you have written?
But then again people using text speak or leet type spelling really gets on my nerves and deserve being ridiculed! :BlueTeamE

 

[Jodie]

I've avoided the kit chatter section (it can be done ) and remained
in the bits I like best. I did once find myself unexpectedly in a thread about
cars though.

Once I asked about the Search function, mentioning that I'd not found it that
helpful and Tony replied that once I've clicked on the search link and that
little dialogue box has appeared, there is the phrase 'advanced search' lurking
at the bottom of it, which is a big improvement. I'd not even noticed it!

Also, you can exploit Google's ability to search anything on the web by adding
the search string site:bushcraftuk.com/community - this lets you search for
your keywords within the website after the word site:

And of course, if I'm around you can always ask me. I'm a professional
"information scientist" and if it can be found - I'll find it

Surely classic 'netiquette' suggests that it's a good idea to lurk on a forum
before posting - this lets you see how the land lies and you can get an idea
of who's who and what's what before launching in yourself. I think the rules
and regulations suggest that using the search function is 'a good thing' but
I can see that some, in their enthusiasm to join in this wonderful and friendly
(mostly) board, might bypass that.

I'm not surprised that some might feel a bit intimidated if we're too quick to
throw 'use the search engine' at someone - have a look at the b and the e
in the animated 'newbie' below - let's not treat the i like that ;-)


I'm not too bothered about the spelling and grammar here - if I can't understand it
I'll just move on to the next post. There are other places where it does annoy.

From my avatar I think it's probably fairly obvious that I'm a fan of Ray Mears
but I think I can live without hearing about his private life or what he had for
breakfast etc.

 

[Tadpole]

Edit: So, gear vs skills. Of course gear is discussed on the internet over skills; it is an inherently isolating medium and one cannot learn how to track or hunt or bowdrill or meditate or weave or whatever without real life practice and guidance. No number of postings on a message board will replace a week with a master, and even if there is a master (or two or ten) on here, words don't convey skills as well as guidance in real life. So we talk about our favourite toys and the best books to learn from.

funny you should say that, I've learnt more from this site than I did on a course I went on last year, I know more about axes just from reading Red's post, I've learnt more about preping rabbit, from another persons step by step (with pictures) than I did on a course, I've learnt how to prepare a wild bird with out all that plucking about. Oh and reading about making char cloth from a "how to make char cloth" thread was so successfull, that today one spark was enough to set the bit I was attempting to light, and a stray spark set alight the remain cloth in my tin.
A hundred years or more a go, an ex-pat from England learnt all he needed to know on growing tea from chap he corresponded with in India. Now Kenya is now producing 3 million tonnes per year.
Therefore, I have to say that yes it is possible to learn about stuff from reading about it on a forum, read about it, practice it, ask questions, and learn.