Debate: Big cats, wolves & Wild boar

[bilko]

1/ Is it possible for us to live alongside such animals in the relative safety that we have now?

2/ Specifically big cats. Should they be exterminated to uphold the safety of our communities?

3/ What are the pros and cons of reintraducing wolves into remote areas of the country and can you ever see this happening.

4/ Are wild boar a danger to us and would you happily see their numbers increase?

5/ Is there any benefit to us sharing our countryside with such animals or should we just be gratefull to have such magnificent beasts here?

It's these and questions like these that i would like to see answered as i find the whole thing fascinating. I think we can have a good productive debate about this as it is a good topic.
Any imput at all folks, you can use the numbers as pointers to get it rolling if you like.

 

[Spacemonkey]

I'm sure that sheep farmers would disagree, but I can't see a problem at the moment. Lots of people live with big cats in their country, maybe not as overcrowded as us, but attacks are still rare. Anyhow, sometimes it's nice to know we are not the top predator out there...

When I found mine, I emailed a few specialists with pictures of the sign, and reports of what I'd seen and the conclusion was definitely cat. But at no time would i divulge where I'd seen it as I wouldn't want to see it harmed. If it's not doing any harm then leave it be. My dog was not quite so impressed with it... Quite often before I had seen it or been aware of it being there, my dog would get the creeps and get very quiet and sheepish, walking very close to me. He would hear something, and i would get the eery feeling of being watched too. This was on our night walks on the nights when you wouldn't see any other wildlife, which was unusual...

 

[bilko]

I know exactly what you mean about wanting to protect them spacemonkey. But what about in 10 or 15 years time when their numbers are in the low hundreds ( is this a correct estimation anyone? ) and they are regularly menacing livestock?
Saying that though do they sort of self regulate? I mean wild cats are native to this country but how many have we seen.
it is tricky one but i definately think education is important here.

 

[spamel]

I would love to see animals we have eradicated be re introduced into the UK, but I think there would be too many people against it. Farmers would be number 1 as they would complain about their livestock, which is fair I suppose.

Number 2 would be the scaremongers who instigate big knee jerk reactions to everything, they will see that all the bad reasons for doing it will be broadcast with the merits being swept aside.

I would hate to see them re-introuduced and to be killed as the wolves in Mears' Bushcraft series, where a number of wolves were killed because they took down a calf if I remember correctly.

 

[torjusg]

1. Yes, maybe not leopards (mankind's inherited predator).

2. Unless two of the same species, opposite ses exists relatively close, they will in time die anyway.

3. The wolf in Norway has recently returned. The hunters and farmers don't exactly cheer it on. And from what I know, you have fences surrounding private land everywhere, deviding up the land. Wolves need great ranges. Maybe in Scotland, but that would leave little red deer for the lords.

4. I don't think wild boar is dangerous in most cases. There are certainly places suitable in Britain.

5. The wild boar is advantageous as it spreads seeds and spores (not least: Truffle!) It also keeps the undergrowth a little in check. The wolf is a real fox-killer. If your land is plagued by foxes, chances are that he will fix the problem. He will however also want the sheep and big game. But he will leave most of the small game to you. Big cats: Lynx is a good hunter of hare, but may be a little too big to bother about rabbits. The other ones I don't know.

 

[Matthew.Passmore]

I would love to see them re-introduced.

I dont think that it would pose much threat to our personal safety, especially not the wolves, if anything would be dangerous it would be the wild boars as they are aggressive and charge pretty much unprovoked with their large tusks.

they would have to work along side farmers to manage their spread and numbers.

 

[moocher]

the bit about the boar spreading spores and seeds,?i thought i read /watched that they uproot all the bluebells and eat the bulbs thus clearing the woods.i have seen pictures in nz where mobs of 40+ pigs have turned paddocks over looking like plant machinery has been joyridden in there.theres a website monteria boar something?that shows pighunting done the old fashioned way with dog and knife.

 

[2blackcat]

There was a plan, that was shelved, to introduce beaver back into the wild
Too much politics got in the way of that

Soooo, if we can't agree to re-introduce a vegetarian what chance is there with a carnivore?

(All that was paraphrased from a moonlight walk at Wildwood, near Herne Bay. A superb evening. Hearing the wolves sing under a full moon was unforgettable)

 

[BorderReiver]

I am against it Bilko,for the animals sake.

We have screwed up too much of the environment to allow reintroduced species to live happily.Also there would be persecution.

As for the escapes that are living here now,good luck to them.

One exception might be wolves in the Scottish Highlands.There appear to be too many deer and not enough culling of them.If that is so,it seems like a good job for the european wolf.

 

[jerv]

I forgotten the name of the organisation but the people pushing for the reintroduction of wolves reckon thsat the wolves would kill FAR LESS than 100 red deer a year in the highlands. Highland red deer are the most puny sub species of cervus elaphus (look at american elk) attributed to poor nutrition and a lack of predators Trophy hunters don't mimic natural selection. The big royals are the last animals you want to shoot. Shoot the kids and the small limping ones! The wolves I feel would have a good impact on Scottish stalking.
There are urbanish wolves in Romania and Italy. Wolves live in close proximity to people in many European countries. Predators occasionally eat livestock however the main complaint that I heard about wolves in areas where they live was that they kill and eat dogs and cats. This last fact rarely addressed by British wolf groups I feel would be the death of the movement to reintroduce them. Any reintroduction scheme would need to have a compensation plan easy enough with boars as you can use a trophy tax to pay for crop damage.
As far as I know the beavers were introduced and are at a secret location somewhere in scotland. The white tailed eagle was persecuted to extinction and has been succesfullly reintroduced.
Exterminating wild boars may be a moot point as I think they are protected under the bonn convention. Wild (non native i.e not lynx) cats could if possible be wiped out. BASC are against exterminating boars, they also cite the difficulty of eradicating them giving an example of an organised cull in dorset(?) which served merely to spread the animals over the surrounding coutryside. Boars were wiped out by a large, hungry rural population with access to decent hunting weapons. Very different to todays britain.
Yes boars are dangerous in fact I have been charged by one Boars like most animals stay well out of our way. Cars are dangerous, horses are dangerous gentle deer have attacked people. I have been charged by dogs far more often than by boar usually with the owner either assuring me that the dog "isn't dangerous" or admonishing me for "scaring him"Last time the owner walked off without even apologising.
Boars root stuff up and cause some damage. makes me laugh that we accuse an animal of ruining lawns and turfing up the ground when our species cut down all the trees and ploughed nearly everything.

 

[hammock monkey]

having lynx would be a fantastic thing, but we've fenced and tagged just about every square inch of the uk mainland, maybe it wouldnt really work here. Its a shame, i guess with these things you always come back to the same problem - too many humans.
what we need is a good old fashioned world plague! (joke...i think)

 

[OutBackP]

I've been thinking about this for a long time now.
I'm ninety percent sure that I've got a wild cat living very near to me. I'm quite sure I saw it on Sunday, and I've seen it's prints.
I was talking to a mate at work who's lived here all his life. He's comments were, if there's one around here whats it eating? Why's there no dead sheep etc.

I live on a small goat farm and we've also had no problems. So what are they eating? My thoughts were that they will go for an easy target and tasty. Pheasant? There's lots around a good feed tasty.
As for not seeing them. The one I think I saw on Sunday was quick.

My first thought when I saw it was it's deer. It was less than 10 metres away but in the trees. I only glimsed it. But it moved so quick and silent. I was more distracted by the squirrel running away straight at me. Thats what I was there for so I forgot about the cat and went for the food.

So yes I belive that we can live next to cats and not be worried about our children. There's enough prey for the cats. Humans are an aquired taste, so we'll only have a problem if one gets so hungrey it takes a human. Not likly with all the easier targets, farm animals etc.

They have shown how clever they are lets just leave them be. I for one will be out tracking and trying to understand this magnificent creature.

 

[laurens ch]

I like the idea but in practice I don’t think it would work, people in the uk are too used to a countryside where there are no wild animals that could potentially harm them. I just can’t see people respecting the animals and keeping their distance. Maybe I’m being overly cynical but I think there would be cases where people try to stroke wolves or start feeding them etc

 

[Voivode]

I like the idea but in practice I don’t think it would work, people in the uk are too used to a countryside where there are no wild animals that could potentially harm them. I just can’t see people respecting the animals and keeping their distance. Maybe I’m being overly cynical but I think there would be cases where people try to stroke wolves or start feeding them etc

In our mountain parks wild animals are relatively abundant, I can say that I have been witness to many instances of stupidity on the part of the average person. People invading the bears personal space to get a better picture. Even the elk and moose are dreadfully powerful when upset and there are numerous instances of people being badly mauled or killed by an elk because they don't respect them. Even dall sheep can be wicked if they're in the mood, and people sometimes try to feed them. People out for a weekend outing are usually completely ignorant about the danger they put themselves in, and when something bad happens it's the animal (or one like it if nobody is sure which did the deed) that pays the price.

 

[pierre girard]

1/ Is it possible for us to live alongside such animals in the relative safety that we have now?

2/ Specifically big cats. Should they be exterminated to uphold the safety of our communities?

3/ What are the pros and cons of reintraducing wolves into remote areas of the country and can you ever see this happening.

4/ Are wild boar a danger to us and would you happily see their numbers increase?

5/ Is there any benefit to us sharing our countryside with such animals or should we just be gratefull to have such magnificent beasts here?

It's these and questions like these that i would like to see answered as i find the whole thing fascinating. I think we can have a good productive debate about this as it is a good topic.
Any imput at all folks, you can use the numbers as pointers to get it rolling if you like.

I love having wolves around - means I live in wild country. We don't have much for farming here, but I can tell you that such farmers as we do have - hate wolves. I'm a lot more leary of cougars. They attack people. Lynx and bobcat are not an issue as they aren't large enough to consider humans prey. Livestock is another story.

 

[xylaria]

I have a freind who is from canadan trapper stock,and he is quietist most respectful person I have ever met. The people I have met that are from rural poland have the same manner. It seems to me that sharing your environment with wolves, bears, boars ect forces a culture on humans that says we are not top dog. Our spieces needs to be put in its place.

But we are still pretty stupid apes at heart. It doesn't take much for us to start jumping up and down banging our sticks and chucking stones at predators, in the way every other primate does. The UK has very poor culture of respect, and media that over reacts, and thrives on the stupids apes.

Wild boar, big cats, are infatessimally less likely to harm me than another human. personally the more proper wildlife we have the better, but wolves might have to be introduced in the way big cats have been, for the safety of the wolves.

 

[chrisanson]

I have a freind who is from canadan trapper stock,and he is quietist most respectful person I have ever met. The people I have met that are from rural poland have the same manner. It seems to me that sharing your environment with wolves, bears, boars ect forces a culture on humans that says we are not top dog. Our spieces needs to be put in its place.

But we are still pretty stupid apes at heart. It doesn't take much for us to start jumping up and down banging our sticks and chucking stones at predators, in the way every other primate does. The UK has very poor culture of respect, and media that over reacts, and thrives on the stupids apes.

Wild boar, big cats, are infatessimally less likely to harm me than another human. personally the more proper wildlife we have the better, but wolves might have to be introduced in the way big cats have been, for the safety of the wolves.

Nice one, I agree about the “media” I haven’t got much time for them.
My vote would be for more wild life in general and we do need to be put in our place and taught more respect from a very urly and stop wrapping everyone up in cotton wool and making nature and wild life a much bigger priority !
Chris

 

[WhichDoctor]

3. The wolf in Norway has recently returned. The hunters and farmers don't exactly cheer it on. And from what I know, you have fences surrounding private land everywhere, deviding up the land. Wolves need great ranges. Maybe in Scotland, but that would leave little red deer for the lords.

Well yes most of England is fenced, but there are the moors like dartmoor and the North York Moors, also most of the welsh hills are only sparsely fenced and most of Scotland, but most of the food in all of those pleases consists of sheep. I don't think the farmers would be very happy about that.

4. I don't think wild boar is dangerous in most cases. There are certainly places suitable in Britain.

As for wild boar, there are all-ready several colonies living in Southern England and they seem to be doing well. Since the efforts to cull them appear to have been less than effective it looks like we're stuck with them wether we like it or not . I quite like the idea, it'll give me an excuse to take my quarter staff with me on walks .

Maybe I’m being overly cynical but I think there would be cases where people try to stroke wolves or start feeding them etc.

Sadly, I can see that happening .

There was a plan, that was shelved, to introduce beaver back into the wild. Too much politics got in the way of that.

I would love to see beavers back in England, it would make kayak trips much more interesting and would be a wonderful thing to see


But if politics gets in the way there's an easy way to get round it. Since many of the most successful reintroduction's seem to have been from animal rites people breaking the fences of fur farms. if you wont wolfs in Scotland or beavers in England or anything all you have to do is set up a fur farm with lacks security, spread some roomers of cruelty wait a few months and they'll do the work for you .

 

[redflex]

We would neeed in theory need to re-introduce the native landscape, give them any real chance. The landscape is so different from when they were here last.

The question is how far to you take things, if you then therefore return things back to as they were before when you choice 1940,s 1800,s 1000 BC etc.....

Is this idea about conseravtion or an exercise in trying to recreate the good old. The ecosystem develops and changes, it is not something to be preserved like an old castle,

Move forward not back, but this could include large mammals etc being re-introduced

PIgs and wild boar are fantistic at improving forest ecology and diversity a woodland with pigs or boar in has much higher chance of natural regeneration with seedlings etc have higher survival rates.

On hillside they remove large areas of bracken and bramble so there improving scrub and heathland as well.

 

[torjusg]

The beaver too is very gainly for the landscape. It clears the forest and make artificial wetlands. Also, when the dams fill up with organic matter they become excellent soils.