dakota hole fire

[novembeRain]

As suggested, I gave this a go today and have a few comments:

There it is, I dug a hole about 18" deep and about a foot wide for the fire. As it happened, I forgot to grab a trowel when I left home so made a digging stick from a wrist thick "log" by cutting a "flat" on one end with my axe (every excuse at the moment, but it's a pleasure to use now that it's very sharp). The stick also worked well to make the air hole which ended up being about 4.5" after I hammered the digging stick in at about 45' to the bottom of the fire hole and wiggled it to make the hole bigger.

So, easy enough to make - had the wind not decided to change direction (from what I've read, the air hole should face into the wind so air is forced in).

Right, what I found. When the fire was well ablaze, air IS drawn into the hole via the air hole but it doesn't draw the air in itself unless a lot of heat is being produced. I ended up making a further hole facing into the wind (as the first one should have). It does seem to be an efficient fire but didn't cut the smoke down much, if at all.

The main advantages I see for this method are that it would make lighting the fire easier in poor conditions and by putting green sticks over the hole you can make a very quick pot stand.

So, thanks for the suggestion, I enjoyed giving it a go and hope other people find my experience useful

 

[Wayland]

Interesting idea.

I guess you'd have to be careful around tree roots and the like though.

 

[Shewie]

Looks good NR, I`ve been meaning to give this a go for ages.

How do you feed the fire, can it be done through the air hole ?

Did you get a brew on to try it out

 

[novembeRain]

Interesting idea.

I guess you'd have to be careful around tree roots and the like though.

Good point, and you've made me look a bit of a plonker with that one

There were a few small ones which would've got toasted in the hole but I didn't feel it would be enough to do any lasting dammage to any of the nearby trees. Had there been any big roots down there I wouldn't have done it.

While we're on the subject though, I suppose it would be important to note this would be a very bad method if the ground were peat.

I've rotated the pic on photobucket but it's not changed on here yet

 

[novembeRain]

Looks good NR, I`ve been meaning to give this a go for ages.

How do you feed the fire, can it be done through the air hole ?

Did you get a brew on to try it out

You mean fuel or air? Fuel I just chucked on as with any fire, air seems to sort itself out most of the time but I did blow down the hole to get it going better which worked as well if not better than with a normal fire.

Not a brew as such, I took a tin of roast beef with me though (since when did john west tin beef!? I thought it was tuna!), that sat on two sticks over the hole made a nice quick lunch for me (opened of course)

 

[Stew]

Is it easy to tell that the fire has been extinguished properly?

Do you think the positives are sufficient for the effort involved?

 

[novembeRain]

Is it easy to tell that the fire has been extinguished properly?

Do you think the positives are sufficient for the effort involved?

I couldn't tell you really, I filled the empty beef tin up from a nearby stream a few times and soaked it, it was also in damp, sandy soil so when I filled the hole I was confident that if it wasn't quite out it would be smothered by the soil anyway.

To be honest, though it didn't take much effort I doubt I'll be doing it very often as it didn't seem to burn any better than any of the other methods I use. I'll probably use it more when I'm cooking than anything else. I wouldn't recommend it if you want a fire for warmth because you don't feel much from it.

 

[Stew]

Cool. The idea of digging a hole always put me off trying it.

 

[novembeRain]

ah, it only took 10 mins once I'd made the digging stick - may take longer in clay though. The soil round here's mostly sort of muddy sand.

 

[Wayland]

Good point, and you've made me look a bit of a plonker with that one

There were a few small ones which would've got toasted in the hole but I didn't feel it would be enough to do any lasting dammage to any of the nearby trees. Had there been any big roots down there I wouldn't have done it.

While we're on the subject though, I suppose it would be important to note this would be a very bad method if the ground were peat.

I've rotated the pic on photobucket but it's not changed on here yet

Sorry mate, didn't mean it like that, I assumed you'd already checked the ground out before starting.

It reminds me of the tipi / laavu / yurt idea of running a pipe in from under the side to the fire in the centre to improve the air flow.

 

[novembeRain]

Sorry mate, didn't mean it like that, I assumed you'd already checked the ground out before starting.

It reminds me of the tipi / laavu / yurt idea of running a pipe in from under the side to the fire in the centre to improve the air flow.

No worries, I took it light-heartedly, besides - you caught me out fair and square

 

[Shewie]

You mean fuel or air? Fuel I just chucked on as with any fire, air seems to sort itself out most of the time but I did blow down the hole to get it going better which worked as well if not better than with a normal fire.

Not a brew as such, I took a tin of roast beef with me though (since when did john west tin beef!? I thought it was tuna!), that sat on two sticks over the hole made a nice quick lunch for me (opened of course)

I suppose I meant feeding fuel in if the top was covered by a pan. Thinking about it though a pan wouldn`t cover the fire completely anyway so it could be fed from above/sides like you said.

I`ve got an empty veggie patch in the garden which will do nicely for a test at the weekend

 

[novembeRain]

Have fun! even if there's a pot over the fire, I doubt it would hurt to lift it off for a min to add fuel.

 

[Toddy]

Cheers for posting

Do you think it was a hotter than usual fire ? As in would it be a good way to heat things up and then clamp them down to cook in the heat while you went away and did something else ? Like pit roasting without having to source unexploding stones ?

cheers,
Toddy

 

[sirex]

good to see you gave it a go - now i got no excuse to not try it myself.

after doing a little more research, i understand their also called indian fires (i assume native indians used them, dont know). From what ive read, the smoke dies down or vanishes only once a certain tempreture of fire is reached, so that might be why you still had some smoke.

I also read their meant to be more efficient on wood usage due to the oven affect, did you find this ?

one tip i saw was putting a board or something to deflect the air down into the air hole at 45 degrees over the hole, to increase the air flow. - There's a few videos of them on youtube where you can actually hear the air being drawn in.

yea, i prolly should have mentioned dont do it near tree roots, and definatly not if the soil is peat (but then fires are bad period in that situation).

 

[novembeRain]

Cheers for posting

Do you think it was a hotter than usual fire ? As in would it be a good way to heat things up and then clamp them down to cook in the heat while you went away and did something else ? Like pit roasting without having to source unexploding stones ?

cheers,
Toddy

I wouldn't have said it was much hotter but from what sirex said; I didn't make a very good job of it - it was my first go after all

I think it would make a good oven pit, especially if you made some sort of cover over the hole and a small (ish) hole to let smoke etc out and keep the flow of air going.

 

[sirex]

I wouldn't have said it was much hotter but from what sirex said; I didn't make a very good job of it - it was my first go after all .

ah, didnt mean it like that ;p it actually looked pretty nifty.

 

[novembeRain]

ah, didnt mean it like that ;p it actually looked pretty nifty.

No, no offence taken or anything mate, just from your post I could see my attempt wasn't perfect

 

[Chinkapin]

novemberRain: These were built out on the Great Plains to help avoid the risk of a prairie fire. Wisdom dictated to put the fire in a hole away from the surrounding grass. It looks like you got a pretty good one going there. If your fire is smoking too much as you say and your picture indicates, this would almost always be caused by wet or green wood or equally likely, putting too much or too big of wood onto the fire too quickly. Burn the smallest twigs possible untlil you have a small bed of coals and then slowly increase your size of wood. I personally would not use anything much larger than my thumb. It appears to be smoking because of too much wood too fast. Also, your wood looks too large for this early in the fire. Although I cant really tell because there is nothing in the picture to make a reference from. I don't know what dimensions your fire hole is but most people say about 1 foot across and 1 foot deep. The air hole is usually dug about 1 foot from the rim of the firehole on an angle to the bottom of the fire hole. Too long or to short and it wont draw properly. I think you have just about got everything right though. Make a few adjustments on your Mark II and I think you will be very happy.

 

[helixpteron]

Whilst on the subject of low level fires, I thought I'd post a link to the Winter Scout Pit, which is basically a Scout Pit, with a fire at one end.

Another way of describing it may be that its a large Dakota Fire Hole, with the air channel dug to accomodate an adult!

First link is to the Scout Pit build, the second is to illustrate the Winter Scout Pit.

http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/shelter/scoutpit/ygas.html

http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/shelter/scoutpit/jlwinterscoutpit.html

I'd have thought that sleeping with the head facing the direction of the air hole and feet towards the fire would be better, and the entry point above the head!