Personally I've always fancied a crossbow, without having a good reason, but its academic as I don't have the spare cash.
cross bows your view
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A bit off the topic of "hunting" with a crossbow I still want to comment on your above post. While I agree with you sentiment for anyone "hunting" an animal, I cain't agree with your statement, "...anyone shooting an animal for WHATEVER reason has an obligation to ensure the animal is killed as quickly and cleanly as possible..." If you or family are being attacked by a dangerous animal (an unlikely event in the UK granted) all obligations beyond survival/protecting your family are void.
Bow hunting is legal and fairly popular in NZ - but not as popular as rifle hunting. A firarms licence is faily simple to get and n othing like an FAC in UK.
Crossbow hunting is not as widespread - I think a lot of people start bowhunting here for the extra stalking challenge, as you have to get pretty close. If I start using pointy things it would be using a compound bow.
Crossbow hunting is not as widespread - I think a lot of people start bowhunting here for the extra stalking challenge, as you have to get pretty close. If I start using pointy things it would be using a compound bow.
My comments were directed towards the hunting of small animals present in the UK with an air rifle or a FAC rifle, whether for sport or vermin control, this is usually; rabbits, deer, squirrels, rats, pigeons, magpies and ducks.
Whilst i have no issue with killing an animal i do feel it is right and proper to give that animal a quick, clean death so there is no suffering, this is nearly always possible when shooting any of the above game, anyone shooting animals with no regard for their pain or suffering should not be shooting in my opinion.
Obviously being attacked by an animal capable of killing a human is a different situation entirely, but even in that situation, killing the animal quickly and cleanly would be in your best interest, there'd be no point shooting a bear in the paw just to make it more angry! so the obligation for a clean kill is not only to minimise the suffering of the animal but also for efficiency.
I would think that probably depends on where it breaks.; Near one end? In the middle? It's obviously going to go in the direction it's pulled by the limbs.
Modern strings are more likely to reach their stretch/twist limit than break. They do take a fair bit of abuse and their centre serving needs replaced quite often but I've never seen one break through normal use.
Not to say it can't happen, just that it's not particularly common.
If it were to go I'd imagine it'd happen either when the string was drawn(you'd fall over backwards) or when released(the crossbow would shudder and shake but it'd be happening away up the front and not pose any danger.
Misfires are another matter. Between strings not locating properly, damaged servings, poorly designed triggers/safetys and mechanical wear misfires can definately happen. The classic is the nudge that a bolt gives a string that's not sitting right while loading...
You sit the arrow on the track, slip it back and as soon as it hits position it goes off. If your fingers are curled this can easily rip a fingernail clean off and of course if the crossbow is pointed in the wrong direction far worse can happen.
Always keep your fingers pointed forward while loading, slip the bolt back with an upper arm movement rather than by bending your wrist. Then if it misfires the string will slip under your fingers and you'll just have numb fingertips for a while.
Keep the crossbow pointed downrange and treat it as though it'll go off on it's own accord at any time.
(that's just the way I think while using them - there will of course be models where misfires don't occur but of the three crossbows I've used over the years two have been prone to them so safer to presume that they all are).
Another form of misfire comes from improperly seated bolts. If the bolt isn't right back in the tracks then the string is traveling at speed when it picks up the bolt. Sometimes the bolt will just sit where it is and the string will jump up over it(ending up holding the bolt to the track) and sometimes the bolt will loose but seriously erraticaly(I've seen 30-odd degrees from path and still with a fair bit of power).
Some folk take off the spring steel bolt holder from modern models. Without it you have better feel of how the bolt has seated. Funnily enough it's there to stop the arrow slipping forwards and causing the same form of misfire as it ends up contributing to.
Don't take that as a recommendation by the way. If I were to buy a crossbow tommorrow I'd remove the retention spring but that's simply a personal choice. It's there mainly for people shooting down from treestands and to allow roving. I'd never rove with a loaded crossbow, cocked maybe but not loaded.
You can also get bad shots if your bolts have notches and you've not been concentrating and have loaded the arrow with the wrong fletch in the track. The notch will be a third of a turn out from horizontal and fliers can occur as a result - never a good thing and when they have the power of a crossbow behind them even they're even worse. Have seen a couple of these and both times the shooter was used to un-notched bolts and had just bought a set which were notched - had got out of the habit of checking.
My own views on crossbows are that they're more akin to guns than bows. I know folk who can match airgun accuracy out to 40m(and beat it hands-down beyond that). I've seen a perfect round on a five circle target face with all five bolts touching the centre crosses and everyone I've known who's had one has used multi-spot targets to avoid destroying bolts through tight grouping.
They don't really do it for me. I think it's because the bolts fly so fast. I like to see an arrow fly but you don't really with crossbows, especialy those fitted with telescopic sights.
Was rummaging about there for a photo but couldn't find it. Was from a session out the farm where I was practicing on a pheasant target face alongside a pal with a compound crossbow. We were at about 35m and to avoid trashing my arrows he was going for headshots. I just managed to keep eight or so arrows in the body zone, he grouped three(touching) arrows in the head, announced that there was no room left there then placed the fourth an inch below the group, upper neck exactly where he said he was going to. An impressive display but really just the norm for someone well practiced.
Not to say it can't happen, just that it's not particularly common.
If it were to go I'd imagine it'd happen either when the string was drawn(you'd fall over backwards) or when released(the crossbow would shudder and shake but it'd be happening away up the front and not pose any danger.
Misfires are another matter. Between strings not locating properly, damaged servings, poorly designed triggers/safetys and mechanical wear misfires can definately happen. The classic is the nudge that a bolt gives a string that's not sitting right while loading...
You sit the arrow on the track, slip it back and as soon as it hits position it goes off. If your fingers are curled this can easily rip a fingernail clean off and of course if the crossbow is pointed in the wrong direction far worse can happen.
Always keep your fingers pointed forward while loading, slip the bolt back with an upper arm movement rather than by bending your wrist. Then if it misfires the string will slip under your fingers and you'll just have numb fingertips for a while.
Keep the crossbow pointed downrange and treat it as though it'll go off on it's own accord at any time.
(that's just the way I think while using them - there will of course be models where misfires don't occur but of the three crossbows I've used over the years two have been prone to them so safer to presume that they all are).
Another form of misfire comes from improperly seated bolts. If the bolt isn't right back in the tracks then the string is traveling at speed when it picks up the bolt. Sometimes the bolt will just sit where it is and the string will jump up over it(ending up holding the bolt to the track) and sometimes the bolt will loose but seriously erraticaly(I've seen 30-odd degrees from path and still with a fair bit of power).
Some folk take off the spring steel bolt holder from modern models. Without it you have better feel of how the bolt has seated. Funnily enough it's there to stop the arrow slipping forwards and causing the same form of misfire as it ends up contributing to.
Don't take that as a recommendation by the way. If I were to buy a crossbow tommorrow I'd remove the retention spring but that's simply a personal choice. It's there mainly for people shooting down from treestands and to allow roving. I'd never rove with a loaded crossbow, cocked maybe but not loaded.
You can also get bad shots if your bolts have notches and you've not been concentrating and have loaded the arrow with the wrong fletch in the track. The notch will be a third of a turn out from horizontal and fliers can occur as a result - never a good thing and when they have the power of a crossbow behind them even they're even worse. Have seen a couple of these and both times the shooter was used to un-notched bolts and had just bought a set which were notched - had got out of the habit of checking.
My own views on crossbows are that they're more akin to guns than bows. I know folk who can match airgun accuracy out to 40m(and beat it hands-down beyond that). I've seen a perfect round on a five circle target face with all five bolts touching the centre crosses and everyone I've known who's had one has used multi-spot targets to avoid destroying bolts through tight grouping.
They don't really do it for me. I think it's because the bolts fly so fast. I like to see an arrow fly but you don't really with crossbows, especialy those fitted with telescopic sights.
Was rummaging about there for a photo but couldn't find it. Was from a session out the farm where I was practicing on a pheasant target face alongside a pal with a compound crossbow. We were at about 35m and to avoid trashing my arrows he was going for headshots. I just managed to keep eight or so arrows in the body zone, he grouped three(touching) arrows in the head, announced that there was no room left there then placed the fourth an inch below the group, upper neck exactly where he said he was going to. An impressive display but really just the norm for someone well practiced.
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I have a self loading pistol crossbow. Meaning I 'break' the bow in half and it reloads itself, rather than me pulling the string.
It is an 80lb draw, but very easy for me to load and shoot. So easy that I can get 2 shots off hitting the bull, or next outer ring, from 40ft in 10 seconds.
We as a family also shoot with bows from the father in law down to my youngest who is 7, so I appreciate both forms.
I just love the crossbow, loved them since I was a kid and saw a fantasy film where the elf had this great automatic crossbow (can't remember the name of the film).
Yes, you can't hunt with them in the uk, and I don't own it to hunt, but if society broke down and I had to hunt for food with it, i'd prefer it to a bow due to its size and efficiency.
It is an 80lb draw, but very easy for me to load and shoot. So easy that I can get 2 shots off hitting the bull, or next outer ring, from 40ft in 10 seconds.
We as a family also shoot with bows from the father in law down to my youngest who is 7, so I appreciate both forms.
I just love the crossbow, loved them since I was a kid and saw a fantasy film where the elf had this great automatic crossbow (can't remember the name of the film).
Yes, you can't hunt with them in the uk, and I don't own it to hunt, but if society broke down and I had to hunt for food with it, i'd prefer it to a bow due to its size and efficiency.
I have always had an interest in getting a crossbow but I've always wondered where you can leagally shoot them. As far as I'm aware there arent many archery clubs willing to allow crossbow users onto the range around my parts and they can't just be used anywhere.
My view is that someone who is well versed and practised in the safe operation and shooting of a crossbow is no problem. The main problem in my opinion is that the criteria for owning a crossbow is that you only have to be legally 18 to buy one. There isn't any real regulation to the ownership of them and they are an item when which used incorrectly can cause serious harm of even death.
Again it all comes down to the individual that owns the crossbow as at the end of the day the crossbow can't hurt anyone on its own. It will always need someone loading it and subsequently pointing and pulling the trigger.
My view is that someone who is well versed and practised in the safe operation and shooting of a crossbow is no problem. The main problem in my opinion is that the criteria for owning a crossbow is that you only have to be legally 18 to buy one. There isn't any real regulation to the ownership of them and they are an item when which used incorrectly can cause serious harm of even death.
Again it all comes down to the individual that owns the crossbow as at the end of the day the crossbow can't hurt anyone on its own. It will always need someone loading it and subsequently pointing and pulling the trigger.
Would there really be an effective way to regulate it? After all it's just wood and string; any competent handyman could probably make one himself in the basement. At least by the second attempt. I had a friend make one back in the late 1970s. Figuring out the trigger was his biggest hurdle but even that only kept the project at a little more than a week IIRC.
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Doesn't the ban on bow hunting extend to then hunting of humans then? Morally I agree that it's always right that you eat what you hunt.
When I say regulation I refer to something similar to what has been done with the legal purchase of sub 12ft/lb air rifles in that, the crossbow could only be purchased from approved outlets (subject to police control) who then have to check photo I.D to prove the buyer is 18 or older and take a copy for their records of sale should any incidents in a specific area arise.
At that point should an incident happen the police then have access to records of legal buyers within said area.
Again this wouldnt stop someone being an idiot with one but helps towards putting off those who have to follow the due process.
Just my opinion as you can buy a crossbow over the internet without any proof of age etc.
I understand what you're saying. But what I meant is that while you can regulate airguns successfully because most people have little choice but to buy one if they want it, a crossbow is a fairly simple do-it-yourself project. All that said, I still have dificulty understanding the whole concept of needing a license to buy an airgun (or a real gun for that matter)
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We only need a license for airguns if the power of the rifle exceeds 12ft/lbs. Which is to say around 600fps in .22 and 750-800 fps in .177
More than enough for vermin out to 70+ yards if your marksmanship is upto scratch
More than enough for vermin out to 70+ yards if your marksmanship is upto scratch
When I lived in Western Australia I did a great deal of hunting of rabbits, crows and the declared vermin species of cockatoos.
I used blunts exclusively.
What you are saying is completely untrue. For starters, there is no 'hydraulic shock' from an arrow going sub-200fps. No way.
If you hit major bones, the bones tend to be shoved through the animal by the arrow, causing a huge amount of damage. They still don't "drop dead instantly".
Hit the abdomen, and they will live for minutes unless you shoot them again, hit them over the head or something.
Even shot through the lungs and ribs with an 11/32" blunt, a crow will live for 20-30s. That's a long time to be in agony.
Your statement about range isn't true, unless you are trying to ensure a headshot. Even then I'd say not many people can ensure a headshot on a small animal with a bow (not unless they are using a laser rangefinder on flat ground, sights and the animal is obliging enough to not move for the time it takes to set up the shot).
If not going for headshots, the practical limit is as far as the bow can shoot. I've killed crows out past 100yards - just a lucky shot - the arrow hits nearly as hard at 100yards as it does at 20.
Mostly agree with you. The only disagreement is that you're presuming that the prey will always be small game. I never heard of anyone trying for a head shot on deer with archery gear (any archery gear) With deer or other big game the kill zone (usually the heart) is about a 10 inch target; but even so it's best to keep range under 40 yards to insure a hit in said zone or you may very well lose it as it runs a mile and hides before dying. At least deer will, cougars, bear or buffalo might charge.
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