That is indeed a good shot. 
A killing shot too, not target. It equates to 2657 yards
A killing shot too, not target. It equates to 2657 yards
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cross bows your view
- Thread starter viegar0
- Start date
I only let my kids shoot a live objects once they attain a 1" grouping at 35 yards.
Opinions may differ but for me a 1" is the minimum skill level required to dispatch a animal.
If you can attain a 1"grouping at 75 yards with a 12ft/lb air rifle then your talents are wasted, you should be up there competing with the very best.
I used to compete in field target shooting and have seen the likes of Nick Jenkinson miss 1" targets at 55 yards.
Yeah, 1" is the standard as a general rule.
At 70 i only use one rifle, a long barrel Logun Mk2. Nothing else i have ( mainly carbines) can group within an inch at 70 consistently. The long barrel causes the pellet to strike 4" higher than the shorter barrels at that distance, Due to having more time to be propelled by the air blast than the shorter barrels can offer. It also aids long range accuracy as more spin is imparted on the pellet.
Longer barrels increase accuracy at longer range.
I don't compete in target events because they bore me. I'm not really the competitive type tbh, unless competing with myself is counted. If i had an FAC then i'd have an interest in the long range target disciplines. Perhaps even competitively.
At 70 i only use one rifle, a long barrel Logun Mk2. Nothing else i have ( mainly carbines) can group within an inch at 70 consistently. The long barrel causes the pellet to strike 4" higher than the shorter barrels at that distance, Due to having more time to be propelled by the air blast than the shorter barrels can offer. It also aids long range accuracy as more spin is imparted on the pellet.
Longer barrels increase accuracy at longer range.
I don't compete in target events because they bore me. I'm not really the competitive type tbh, unless competing with myself is counted. If i had an FAC then i'd have an interest in the long range target disciplines. Perhaps even competitively.
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Its in here somewhere.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/69/contents
Hunting with bows or xbows is indeed illegal.
Though i was always under the impression that it was made illegal due to the silent nature of the weapon, and ease with which poachers could take game unnoticed, compared to a firearm.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/69/contents
Hunting with bows or xbows is indeed illegal.
Though i was always under the impression that it was made illegal due to the silent nature of the weapon, and ease with which poachers could take game unnoticed, compared to a firearm.
Yeah, 1" is the standard as a general rule.
At 70 i only use one rifle, a long barrel Logun Mk2. Nothing else i have ( mainly carbines) can group within an inch at 70 consistently. The long barrel causes the pellet to strike 4" higher than the shorter barrels at that distance, Due to having more time to be propelled by the air blast than the shorter barrels can offer. It also aids long range accuracy as more spin is imparted on the pellet.
Longer barrels increase accuracy at longer range.
I don't compete in target events because they bore me. If i had an FAC then i'd have an interest in the long range target disciplines though.
Sorry but i just don't believe it.
At 12 ft/lb even on your Logun the bullet drop trajectory over 75 yards will be in inches not mm, certainly out of the compensation range of your scope.
This is without mentioning wind.
Personally i'm a very poor shot, only time i did well was in a very windy comp and that was more to do with me sticking with .22.
I have seen and know some extremely talented shooters though and i do not know of and have never heard of anyone that can consistently do a 1" grouping at 75 yards with a 12 ft/lb air rifle.
Well yes, obviously the drop off is in inches (nearer a foot). But you are showing how much you do not understand a scope/rifle set up. You see a 1/4 moa scope will require 16 clicks at 25 yards to move one inch. 8 at 50 to move the same inch. 6 at 75 and 4 at 100. So in order to move the crosshairs a foot at 75 you need 72 clicks. I promise you that scopes can do that mate. Those 72 clicks will move a scope less than 5 inches at 25. Needing around 192 clicks to move the poi a foot at 25( which most scopes will struggle with). You see the difference? A scope is designed for long range shooting, the further away the target the more effective the scope is at doing its job.
So before you call me a liar i suggest you have knowledge of that which you claim i am lying about first eh?
I'll state "again" that i tend not to take that shot in windy conditions if i can avoid it.
So out of all those shooters you know, was any of them a military trained marksman? If they were, then i expect they could shoot like that. Despite what you may believe, 70 yards is not a difficult shot "IF YOU HAVE PRACTICED AT 70 YARDS" The pellet will land consistently in the same spot, maybe not as tight as at 35 yards but if your rifle is consistent enough ( less than 10fps vari) then any man who can group at 35 can group at 70. Go out and try it, rather than calling me a liar on something you obviously have NO experience with whatsoever. Get your rifle, set a target up at 70, and start practicing. Come back after you have fired a 1000 pellets at 70 and then call me a liar. bet you will be grouping far far better than you imagined too.
All that nonsense about max range etc is a general guide for beginners so they dont go shooting at things they aint skilled enough to hit. Simple fact is, an air rifle is capable of dropping rabbits out to about 90 yards. But not many shooters are good enough or practice enough at those ranges. Get to know your set up, get practicing at ranges YOU believe are impossible, and pleasantly surprise yourself. Get yourself a bipod if it'll help. Even easier then.
So before you call me a liar i suggest you have knowledge of that which you claim i am lying about first eh?
I'll state "again" that i tend not to take that shot in windy conditions if i can avoid it.
So out of all those shooters you know, was any of them a military trained marksman? If they were, then i expect they could shoot like that. Despite what you may believe, 70 yards is not a difficult shot "IF YOU HAVE PRACTICED AT 70 YARDS" The pellet will land consistently in the same spot, maybe not as tight as at 35 yards but if your rifle is consistent enough ( less than 10fps vari) then any man who can group at 35 can group at 70. Go out and try it, rather than calling me a liar on something you obviously have NO experience with whatsoever. Get your rifle, set a target up at 70, and start practicing. Come back after you have fired a 1000 pellets at 70 and then call me a liar. bet you will be grouping far far better than you imagined too.
All that nonsense about max range etc is a general guide for beginners so they dont go shooting at things they aint skilled enough to hit. Simple fact is, an air rifle is capable of dropping rabbits out to about 90 yards. But not many shooters are good enough or practice enough at those ranges. Get to know your set up, get practicing at ranges YOU believe are impossible, and pleasantly surprise yourself. Get yourself a bipod if it'll help. Even easier then.
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Belittle as much as you want, fact is i do not believe that you can keep within a 1" grouping at 75 years with a 12ft/lb air rifle.
No way, no how.
No way, no how.
Believe what you like, its your choice.
Doesn't alter anything though. Especially the fact that you know very little about shooting.
If you used to shoot FT, why didn't you know how a scope works?
Just remember, consistent accurate shooting isn't about what you can do with a rifle, its about what you can do with your body. Its about stillness, about timing, about mathematics.
Doesn't alter anything though. Especially the fact that you know very little about shooting.
If you used to shoot FT, why didn't you know how a scope works?
Just remember, consistent accurate shooting isn't about what you can do with a rifle, its about what you can do with your body. Its about stillness, about timing, about mathematics.
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Crossbows are pretty accurate, especially with a scope on. I never tried one out to those distances, but at 35 meters it was hitting what i aimed at. Only time i used one though.
I was shooting at a 1" thick oak board and half the bolt went through it, no hope of retrieval. Seriously powerful things crossbows.
A decent scope will offer at least 50 MOA of adjustment. That will allow 50 three quarter inch adjustments at 75 yards...in under quarter inch increments. Now even allowing for a centre line at zero thats 25 MOA above and below the centre line - a matter of feet of adjustment at 100 yards and over 18" at 75 yards. To adjust further one could use height adjustable mounts or a canted scope base to achieve the require declination. Even assuuming HillBill was using "come up" click adjustment for the range, this is a perfectly feasible amount of adjustment, without a declined base or set of adjustable mounts. I would expect though that a simple "hold over" from a 35 yard zero using a ballistic or mill dot reticle would provide more than adequate trajectory compensation.
Its certainly a long shot and I have no knowledge of the shooter - but the equipment certainly exists to achieve a scope zero at such a range should one wish to.
Red
In a recoilless, air rifle its true enough. I've tested many rifles at 70 yards and the longer the barrel the higher the pellet strike and the tighter the group. Obviously this doesnt apply to recoiling air rifles.
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Again, I don't shoot airguns except at rats and bunnies, but a longer barrel certainly changes both accuracy and trajectory in a centrefire weapon. Let me give you an example - the .357 magnum round.
Factory made .357 ammo has to work well in handguns. So it uses a ridiculously fast burning powder. This is because any pressure developed after the first two inches of bullet travel is wasted in short barreled revolvers. This causes a fast, jerky, high recoil acceleration. Put that round in a Marlin 1894 carbine with an 18" barrel, you have a fast jerky acceleration, followed by 16" of decreasing pressure and deceleration. Optimal accuracy is engendered by a long slow acceleration. So when I make rounds for my .357 Marlin, I use a slower burning rifle powder. This cause a much slower, more gentle acceleration to a higher velocity with less recoil. A more accurate round that would hit higher on the same absolute point of aim.
My point? Shoot the same round, under the same pressure, out of different length barrels and you shift both point of aim and relative accuracy. Tinker with the barrel, projectile and pressure curve and you optimise both.
This is the very reason why any serious accuracy shooter wouldn't dream of using factory made ammunition but tunes their projectile, powder and primer to their barrel.
Red
Longer barrels also give longer sighting radius when using open sights, but that's irrelevant with a scope. The inherent stability that comes with a longer barrel (more mass) helps no matter what sights are used.
It's basic ballistics, regardless of whether the weapon is air powered or a firearm. Why do you think pistols have less range and accuracy than rifles or carbines firing similar ammunition?
It alters the weight of your opinion if your talking rubbish.
As i say you can belittle as much as you like, the fact remains that i do not believe you can shoot a 1"grouping at 90 yards with a 12 ft/lb air rifle.
I have seen and shot with some of the countries and worlds best shooter, if any of them got a 1"grouping at 90 yards with a 12 ft/lb air rifle they'd be doinfg hand stands and buying everyone a drink in the bar.
To be honest i don't have the time to do a bullet drop calculation right now.
I do know with a 12 ft'/lb .22 air rifle your aiming off the end of the barrel at that range.
It has absolutely nothing to do with stillness.
You could clamp a air rifle in a vice and you'd still get groupings over 1" at 90 yards.
Really no point talking any more about it.
You want to prove me wrong fine, stick up a vid of you shooting 5 pellets out of a 12 ft/lb air rifle outdoors at 90 yards.
Shoot 5 pellets, pace out 90 yards outdoors back to the target with the video still running, then offer up a ruler showing all 5 shots within a 1"grouping.
If you can do that i'll happily apologise.
Plus as another incentive i'll pay £100 to a charity of your choosing.
Cheers
Mark
Can I take you up on your bet in a different form? You stated
If I can get an air rile to shoot at point of aim, with the scope of my choosing, at 75 yards - so that it is within " the compensation range of the scope" will you pay £100 to the charity of my choosing? I will happily conduct the test in front of a certified NRA RCO.
Red
If I can get an air rile to shoot at point of aim, with the scope of my choosing, at 75 yards - so that it is within " the compensation range of the scope" will you pay £100 to the charity of my choosing? I will happily conduct the test in front of a certified NRA RCO.
Red
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