Compound knife handles? views

[badgeringtim]

Hi all,
I have been wondering about this for some time now so thought id ask;

I handle knife blades using small blocks of woods compressed and glued (with combinations of leather horn birch bark etc) - this is what i mean by 'compound' handles but its not something you see around that much here so i wondered what peoples views on them were.
Personally i like it as you can have wood grains going different ways and have varying natural colours, incorporate bone/antler or horn etc.

Looking around there seems to be a preference for full tang knives with scales added or handles shaped from one peice of wood, is there any particular reason for that?

I suspect people may say that the full tang is stronger and seesm to be more popular for Bushy stuff but is a stick tang really likely to fail even if it is ony 2/3 through the handle blocks? (i tend to add pins between blocks any further down)
Ive not really bashed one about and most people i make mine for are unlikely to really abuse them so am curiose about this.
So is it a weaker system, do you just prefer the continuity of a one grained peice of wood or what .. hmm?

 

[Hedgehog]

All depends on the build quality I guess - and personal preferences etc..

Many believe full tangs to be stronger - In many cases they likely are. Full tangs are much easier to make too, I think this explains much of their popularity - to make a strong stick tang with a variety of materials is a far more technical task. Different materials will expand & contract at different rates and over time can become quite ill fitting hence the use of more flexible materials such as leather, vulcanised fiber, birch bark etc. as spacers & liners.

Full tang knives are often over engineered IMO, no bad thing really though I don't require a blade I can hammer into an oak fence post & stand on to watch the footie for free or whatever one does with such a thing. (hmmm, that is probably not on the list of 'reasons why I have a fixed blade in my knapsack officer').

Full tangs will readily forgive poor batoning techniques that can break stick tangs at the bolster.

I personally prefer stick tangs of one material, mainly for affordability, (relative) ease of construction & durability.

Certain very famous masters of our craft recommend &/or sell full tang knives for very high prices witch may add to their popularity & perceived ability.

Cheap knives often do the most work I would imagine.

That's my tuppence worth on the matter anyway.

Some people use a 4x4 to drop the kids off at the pool while others cross the Himalayas in a 2CV...

 

[Zingmo]

IIRC Lofty Wiseman :notworthy used to advocate full tang knives. His philosophy was that if the handle of the knife became loose or damaged, a full tang could be wrapped in cord or some other material and the knife will still be usable, whereas a small stick tang cannot so easily be bodged back to usefullness. Of course he was talking about survival, not bushcraft (whatever that is ).


Z

 

[John Fenna]

Actually a stick tang is easily rehandled in the field!
Get a piece of fairly pithy wood - such as hazel - and bang the tang into it - job done.
I have never actually had to do this though ...as none of my composite handled stick tang knives have ever failed in the field...or anywhere for that matter!
I had a full tang blade lose a scale in the field once, but I cannot recall the maker.

 

[brancho]

I see the usual tosh about fulltangs is coming out again.

 

[samthedog]

Stick tang and composite handled knives is all that is generally made at our knife club. Norway's traditional knife designs all have stick tangs and I have never seen one broken under normal use. I made this for a competiton and it has become my woods knife. No trouble with it yet and it has been through the wars.

Paul.

 

[JonathanD]

I don't see how they would be any weaker than a full tang during normal use if made well.

 

[badgeringtim]

Hi guys, well glad to see that there isnt anything inherently 'wrong' with them, personally i like making them much more.
Im not sure about the 'tosh about full tangs' comment, i mean if its pro or anti..
I can understand how a higher proportion of metal in the construction might be perceived as being stronger but has anyone actually had a composite handle that has failed? I mean really even in the most arduous of circumstances?
I suppose there may be a dependency on the type of epoxy used - different types may deteriorate over time - possibly but unless anyone has experienced it i think i'll stick with what im doing.
I have one example of each strangely from really old knives where both had rusted around the metal inserts (pins rivets spacers etc) - clearly not looked after for decades and left in a wood shed so i kinda think of them as not 'real' knives if you follow me.

Sam - thanks for the comment, and nice knife (is the middle bone or antler?). Most of my blades come for your neck of the woods and i was at Seljure (sorry cant spell it propperly) a few years ago.
Im planning on being over there permanently soon. Dont suppose you club is near Tonsburg is it?


I only have poor quality pics but i may post them and see what the feedback is....

 

[forestwalker]

Pretty much agree. Up here the stick tang is the traditional, at least for the last 2000 years or so. As someone pointed out, the only reasons one may want to prefer the full-tang is violent batoning. And do make the tang fairly long (at *least* 3/4, preferably full lenght), and put something flexible between hard bits.

John Fenna: I have "made" knives using fresh birch sections and stock Mora blades; put the point onto a knot in a log, whack the birch branch (bark and all, that what holds it together) onto the tang. Once it has dried you can do some shaping. Held up for years, actually.

 

[Waldganger]

I guess it also depends on who/how the stick tang was made. Personally I'd be wary of a stick welded on, and I've seen that on production knives (albeit rubbish ones) and heat treat probably makes a difference.

I recently received a Roselli Carpenter and I believe that is a stick (not sure if its 1/2 or 3/4) and I have no concern over light baton work for kindling.

 

[robin wood]

I couldn't add much to Hedgehogs excellent reply. I love the analogy of the folk using the 4x4 to do the school run, hey just in case, you never know when a serious survival situation might occur.

For me most of the knives I find most aesthetically pleasing are multi section handle stick tangs. The fact that they also have long history in a culture that wears and uses knives as a part of daily life adds to the appeal. Having said that perhaps there is the difference, these are folk that understand knives and use them as knives, not crowbars.

Here are a couple I bought a few years back from Mik Hodgkinson (Penillion on BB)

And a rather lovely Lapish style knife posted recently by a maker on British Blades.

Original post here[/URL] http://www.britishblades.com/forums...e-quot-Northern-colour-quot&highlight=lappish

What a beautiful knife to wear and use. I would do everything with a knife like this from cutting up my food to carving wood. If I want to do the things folk want crowbar knives for I'll use something else.

 

[jontok]

They are also easier to make than the one-piece handles...Easier to get the hole for the tang straight, and the way to go if you don't have a long enough drill-bit for the tang-hole.


Jontok

 

[Stew]

People seem to get perceptions of the strengths of materials without having any real idea what they're talking about. The more annoying thing is that they keep hold of this view, without finding out for themselves or believing others when they tell them or show them.

While many don't like batoning, I do think it's a valid technique and it's about as extreme as we should be taking the use of a knife, in my opinion.

If a knife breaks when batoning, I think it's do to poor technique as I have seem some monster knives that have snapped and also a full tang.

While these two knives are not made up of as many sections as others, there are some joints there.
Pakistan damascus .. no good?
Batoning is not an issue with a stick tang.

On the flip side, I have this axe that was made by Kisu. It was his first attempt at an axe, and due to what happened to mine, he has learnt from it.

The handle has a bolster, but the repeated shocks on the handle eventually split the wood. A bolster doesn't help in this case as it doesn't support the wood against sideways force. It needs to be a ferrule instead and when I put a new handle on, that is exactly what it will have.


This knife was made by JM for Sargey. I believe his sister has it now.

The copper pipe ferrules will make it much stronger. I suspect it will be a struggle to break!

A simple handle, made in the field:
(if you broke the handle off your stick tang)

It's not pretty and it's not the most comfortable but it's solid enough and only tool used was the blade itself. With more work, it could be better.

I know some of these aren't composite handles but I hope it highlights different things to think on. I actually believe that composites can be stronger, if materials such as bark or leather are used in areas, giving that bit of flex.

 

[bikebum1975]

Great post thanks for the info guys. Me I like all knives folding full tang ad hidden as well. That being said I do love the look of a well done stacked handle and I am toying with it myself for a Mora blank at one point thinking of using some copper in it and the pipe ferrule idea that is a really cool look. I think would be spectacular with some deer antler.

 

[Wayland]

My main users are both stick tangs and have never let me down.

I have just made a new Leuku with a simple compound handle and I think it's going to suit me just fine.

 

[brancho]

Im not sure about the 'tosh about full tangs' comment, i mean if its pro or anti..

The usual comments are dragged out about fulltangs being superior because someone once said it.
The first knife recomended on here is sticktang as they are £10 but after that it all starts going squiffy.

I'd be wary of a stick welded on, and I've seen that on production knives (albeit rubbish ones) and heat treat probably makes a difference.

Some top blade makers use this method and as a good weld is strong enogh to ships, bridges and buildings together why wont it cope for a knife.

 

[brancho]

For me most of the knives I find most aesthetically pleasing are multi section handle stick tangs. The fact that they also have long history in a culture that wears and uses knives as a part of daily life adds to the appeal. Having said that perhaps there is the difference, these are folk that understand knives and use them as knives, not crowbars.
What a beautiful knife to wear and use. I would do everything with a knife like this from cutting up my food to carving wood. If I want to do the things folk want crowbar knives for I'll use something else.

I totally agree with this and I love Miks work

 

[badgeringtim]

Picking up on a comment about commercial knives i a mainly using brusletto and Helle blades - anyone got opinions on them?
My one to be finished off soon is actually an ecomony brusletto - but i like the blade shape and cant quite see whats not good about it if i just ignore the economy name!
Also on stick tang i often find that the stick is slightly wider than the blade - meaning that to get it seamless from the hole to the blade i tend to file this down a little (and add little teeth to make sure the epoxy has something to bite onto). Is there a good reason why this would be, it seems like it adds an unnecessary stage.
On another note - does anyone know of a supplier of reindeer antler- i got some from trompsa but its a bit of a treck to find it..

 

[John Fenna]

I think Casstroms ( www.casstrom.co.uk) might supply the antler. Not all the items they sell are on the website though.....
The blades you mention are good kit!

 

[brancho]

Also on stick tang i often find that the stick is slightly wider than the blade - meaning that to get it seamless from the hole to the blade i tend to file this down a little (and add little teeth to make sure the epoxy has something to bite onto). Is there a good reason why this would be, it seems like it adds an unnecessary stage.

The tang is ofetn thicker on factory blades as they stamped out out for cost reduction reason.

I also thin the tang in these cases to get a better fit.

The blades as John says are good.

You can get antler from highland horn and maybe attleborough