Compass help

[Rich.H]

For years I have happily used a basic Silva model compass and more often relied on gps units. But now I am getting more and more into mountain walking and wanting to get involved in the competitive side of things. This obviously requires a high degree of navigation skill and so while Silva do some exellent kit I was wondering about investing in a high quality lensatic compass. Part of this choice is down to how well they should stand up to abuse compared to the more tradition flat style.

I have seen both a military spec lensatic for around £80 and the high end expedition Silva model for around £55. Ideally I want to purchase a good quality device that will happily outlast me with care, rather than just buying cheaper models every few years or so.

So what would most folks say about a lensatic in comparison to a flat Silva style? Are there any clear benefits or downfalls to either design type?

 

[Macaroon]

I've used a lenseatic military-style compass for the last 30 yrs. and I love it; it's extremely robust and very accurate after very heavy use for most of that time. The feature that attracted me to this type of compass in the first place is the facility to hold it up to my eye, look directly at a point before me and instantly read off an accurate bearing and back bearing at the same time, and in mills or degrees. The damping is great, still as good as the day I bought it, all the glass and optics are as new, and the level bubble is still 100%, not that I use it..............there is also the facility to use it as an inclinometer very easily, though this is something I've never explored.

The only downside I can imagine would be that some folk would think the weight too much, but it's never bothered me ( Mine weighs 230 g with the case ). The Tritium still works very well, givig a clear sight of all markings for at least 10 hours as long as it's been exposed to daylight between uses in the dark. There's also a screw socket on the base for use with a mono or tri-pod in case you need to be super accurate in competition...............Mine cost somewhere around £60 all that time ago and has been worth every penny...................atb mac

 

[rg598]

In my experience it is the same thing. As long as it points North, and it has a rotating dial so you can take a bearing off a map, it is perfectly good for any kind of navigation. The rest is just extras that I personally don't like. If you plan on traveling to the southern hemisphere, then you may want to get a universal compass because I hear the needle is better balanced to suit the different magnet conditions. Other than that, I haven't seen any advantage.

 

[Rich.H]

Thanks for the replies, just wondering if there is much of a difference in quality as far as a few brands go, ones I have looked at are Silva, Suunto, & Recta.

 

[sandbender]

I have taken a Silva 54 on all my trips over the past twenty odd years, it hasn't broken or failed me. The MOD one looks nice (I have one) but it is heavy and doesn't fit into your shirt pocket as easily.

 

[Macaroon]

I think any of the three brands you name above would be a safe bet, just see which one suits you best; as in most of these equipment things, much of it comes down to what works for you and what feels intuitive to use.

 

[wingstoo]

Depends if you want mils or degrees, but some military compasses run a lot higher in price than you have mentioned but there are bargains to be had...

I personally have a couple of Military prismatics in degrees. but for general navigation stuff I have the base plated ones one in mils and several in degrees.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Military-...Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item232d3f7444

 

[brambles]

I have taken a Silva 54 on all my trips over the past twenty odd years, it hasn't broken or failed me. The MOD one looks nice (I have one) but it is heavy and doesn't fit into your shirt pocket as easily.

+1 for the Silva Type 54 - and it has your optical sighting in a more compact package.

 

[Tiley]

I have taken a Silva 54 on all my trips over the past twenty odd years, it hasn't broken or failed me. The MOD one looks nice (I have one) but it is heavy and doesn't fit into your shirt pocket as easily.

+ another 1 for the Type 54. It's light and dependable. Another to consider is the Suunto MC-2 Global. I like this one for its balanced needle and the fact that you can make adjustments to take into account magnetic declination, so saving yourself awful sums in gnarly weather.

 

[Rich.H]

Ok so I am leaning towards the baseplate design now simply as I can't see any major advantage in the lensatic style (and the quality military ones seem to all be around £20 more expensive).

Just wondering folks thoughts on having a single baseplate compass or one of the matchbox styles along with a protractor etc? Here's a quick example of the style I mean. http://www.recta.ch/en/dp-6g

 

[rg598]

Just get a regular compass. All this other stuff is just gimmicks in my opinion. You should not have any problems completing any piece of navigation with a map and a regular compass with a rotating degree dial, i.e. any regular compass.

 

[sandbender]

Just get a regular compass. All this other stuff is just gimmicks in my opinion. You should not have any problems completing any piece of navigation with a map and a regular compass with a rotating degree dial, i.e. any regular compass.

+1

In fact get two, keep a basic small baseplate compass in your pack as spare if you are heading far from the fields you know.

Does anyone use a mils compass for navigation, perhaps other than soldiers who may be used to using such?

 

[Goatboy]

I do find a compass with adjustable declination a boon when navigating in open country in bad weather or at night. Just makes life easier when your cold and tired.

Though for general use I use a Silva Expedition 4. Light, clear easy to use in both day and night. Nice long base plate for position finding.

For more demanding stuff I tend to go between an old Silva EXPEDITION 15 TDCL the clinometer and declination along with the sighting mirror make it a great compass, and an old Suunto KB-14/360/R/D, the latter though spectacular to use is maybe a bit specialised as I mainly used it for forestry and map making applications and is a tadge expensive at around £145 quid these days. Both have shorter baseplates and not as good as such for position finding on a map, though I always had a lightweight roamer ruler in my map case for this job - lots of scales and good length too, well worth it for the £1.50 or so they cost.

 

[santaman2000]

Just get a regular compass. All this other stuff is just gimmicks in my opinion. You should not have any problems completing any piece of navigation with a map and a regular compass with a rotating degree dial, i.e. any regular compass.

A "regular" compass? You mean the old fashioned pocket-watch style compass like this?

They work but I'd rather have a modern orienteering (baseplate) compass myself.

 

[EdS]

Silva 54 best of both worlds

 

[rg598]

A "regular" compass? You mean the old fashioned pocket-watch style compass like this?

They work but I'd rather have a modern orienteering (baseplate) compass myself.

No. By a regular compass I meant a regular modern compass - baseplace compass with a rotating dial like the Suunto A-10 or the Brunton OSS 10B. I use a cheap $10 Suunto orienteering baseplate compass.

 

[maddave]

If you want to get competative forget lensatics. Heavy, cumbersome and over complicated. Try looking at a basic silva or a "Thumb Compass" as used by orienteering groups. You can take bearings on the move while holding your map in one hand

http://www.compasspoint-online.co.uk/acatalog/Orienteering_Thumb_compasses.html

 

[SimonM]

I've aways used the Silva Type 4, in both civvy (degrees) and military (mils) models. They have always served me well.

However, I recently went on an advanced nav course, run by Tamarack for Scout Leaders, and am now converted to the Silva Type 54. Accurate bearings are so much easier with this model...I know as we were taking bearings on clumps of grass or soft rush.

Simon

 

[sandbender]

"...However, I recently went on an advanced nav course, run by Tamarack for Scout Leaders, and am now converted to the Silva Type 54. Accurate bearings are so much easier with this model...I know as we were taking bearings on clumps of grass or soft rush..."

That has been my experience, I have traveled in countries where there is no equivalent to an OS map however there are google sat images that I can view before hand which with the 54 has helped me place myself on the landscape.

 

[Doc]

The Silva Type 4 is the recommended choice for mountain leader training. It will take bearings accurate to 2 degrees. As has been said, it is all you need, really. The surplus military ones are tritium lit and cheaper but you need to be comfortable working with mils. OS maps quote variation in mils as well as degrees, but foreign maps and charts may not.

Then there are the Silva mirror-lid sighting compasses like the Type 15. Extra expense, extra weight, and only slightly more accurate bearings. But the folding lid protects the compass capsule, and a mirror could be handy in the wilds (heliograph, removing ocular foreign bodies, shaving).

I use a Silva Type 54, which is identical to the Type 4 except for the prismatic sighting system accurate to half a degree. The prism bit sticks up above the capsule so it might be more fragile, but I'm on my second one (lost the first, somewhere round Hellvellyn) and have never broken one. You do get very accurate bearings and the limiting factor for accuracy is using it as a protractor. When doing resection you definitely get a smaller trangle of error using the optical system. It weighs barely more than the Type 4.

The military use heavy robust prismatic compasses in conjunction with an RA protractor. Not worth the weight, expense and awkwardness in my view. You probably get a very slight accuracy advantage over the Type 54, due to the larger compass card and bigger protractor.

If you like navigation (and I do), then forget the expense and get a Type 54, perhaps with a large separate protractor for real precision. A good game is to do a resection with it and compare the result to the GPS. You can surprise yourself by how good the method works. But of course, resection is an elegnt but not really useful technique - if you can identify three landmarks, you alreadyknow where you are. The time you really need a compass is in clag, or the dark, or dense forest. And there a Type 4 (or the cheaper Type 3) will do everything needed