civil rangers
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On the face of it,
It seems like a good idea for those who hear that calling. I like the fact that they publish a code of ethics, but the list of skillsand rank structure reads a little weird, as is the U.S. only membership. I don't want to knock it though, and I wish them every success.
ATB
Ogri the trog
It seems like a good idea for those who hear that calling. I like the fact that they publish a code of ethics, but the list of skillsand rank structure reads a little weird, as is the U.S. only membership. I don't want to knock it though, and I wish them every success.
ATB
Ogri the trog
There seem to be several American groups that work along those lines (Women of the Fur Trade is one I can remember).
Why do they do it like that? (learn a skill, prove it to your peers, gain a fancy rank title)
Why do they do it like that? (learn a skill, prove it to your peers, gain a fancy rank title)
Probably has something to do with how they work the public school system so many of them came out of. "Public affirmation" is more important than private satisfaction or individual accomplishment.. And the "group" or "herd" mentality is really pushed. You do everything as part of your group and with your group. So your group then affirms what you have done. The individual is downplayed while the group becomes the primary focus.
So whatever you do for yourself is less important than what you do and show the group - which then rewards you for your accomplishments - all within the group.
That way of thinking kind of goes against what most people here do.
Just a thought to share. Take it as such.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
So whatever you do for yourself is less important than what you do and show the group - which then rewards you for your accomplishments - all within the group.
That way of thinking kind of goes against what most people here do.
Just a thought to share. Take it as such.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
That's an interesting explanation Mike, it clears up a puzzle which arose when my son went for a job over here with an big US based concern. He said they appeared unimpressed by the practical skills he had to offer and seemed more concerned that he was ' a loner ' and was not a member of any group with an organised social activity.
Having said that, I suppose if the more senior Civil Rangers are going to be responsible for beginners in your wildernesses, then it's right that they should be able to 'put their money where their mouth is' (as we say over here), and actually have the accumulated practical experience to keep people from making dangerous mistakes.
Having said that, I suppose if the more senior Civil Rangers are going to be responsible for beginners in your wildernesses, then it's right that they should be able to 'put their money where their mouth is' (as we say over here), and actually have the accumulated practical experience to keep people from making dangerous mistakes.
That's an interesting explanation Mike, it clears up a puzzle which arose when my son went for a job over here with an big US based concern. He said they appeared unimpressed by the practical skills he had to offer and seemed more concerned that he was ' a loner ' and was not a member of any group with an organised social activity.
Having said that, I suppose if the more senior Civil Rangers are going to be responsible for beginners in your wildernesses, then it's right that they should be able to 'put their money where their mouth is' (as we say over here), and actually have the accumulated practical experience to keep people from making dangerous mistakes.
Aaaah, he ran into that American business model -- the "team" is supreme over the individual. You are supposed to be a good ... cog in the machine ... and accept your assigned position in life! Only a few select people get to be "individuals" and work as such. The rest must do as they are told and accept all authority from above without question.
And the school system teaches and reinforces this. Everybody must be dumbed down to the same low level - just slightly above the slowest member of the group. And you don't associate with anyone outside your "class".
So that group/herd mentality gets pretty well beat into people in the current school "system". So much for that creative/individualistic American of old. And it's effects have infected many other areas of society. If you are not part of a recognized "group", then you must be feared as ... different.
Spoken from the point of view of one of those outcasts of modern American society.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
Interesting thoughts Mikey!
do you think we Brits have a more individualistic approach to life and work then? and do you think it serves us well as individuals? and as a nation?
a thought provoking subject I think.
Dom (another reviled outsider!)
do you think we Brits have a more individualistic approach to life and work then? and do you think it serves us well as individuals? and as a nation?
a thought provoking subject I think.
Dom (another reviled outsider!)
Please keep in mind that the U.S. is a very big place. Beliefs which are common practice in one area, might be unthinkable in another.
I found the site aims a little surreal; they were actively promoting the gathering together of 'outsiders', lone campers, solitary walkers, foragers and the like and somehow or other trying to fit them into their system. With all it's attendant qualifications and guidelines
I go to Meets and Moots where I join a vastly diverse group of people who mostly wander solitary or in twos and threes. The thought of anyone trying to 'organise' any of these meets into some kind of 'programme' is frankly appalling. A bit like trying to herd wildcats methinks
*****Gloomhound, in the few years I have been associated with this forum I have seen more and more Americans joining. Many just don't ever seem to get comfortable, and yet others settle in happily around our virtual campfire They're just folk. It's a broad church. I think Hoodoo, the American Mod, is one of the mostly knowledgeable and practical folks around, and Chris Claycomb, who spent many years in America is one of the most skilled.....and have you seem Mike Ameling's work ? 
Sometimes though, those who join seem to feel they have to teach us how to do it their 'correct' way. This group kind of gives off a feel of that vibe.
Most of us have no real idea of American geography or social dynamics, it's just a big place, over there.......and they speak English......sort of Anglish maybe ??
atb,
Toddy
I go to Meets and Moots where I join a vastly diverse group of people who mostly wander solitary or in twos and threes. The thought of anyone trying to 'organise' any of these meets into some kind of 'programme' is frankly appalling. A bit like trying to herd wildcats methinks
*****Gloomhound, in the few years I have been associated with this forum I have seen more and more Americans joining. Many just don't ever seem to get comfortable, and yet others settle in happily around our virtual campfire
They're just folk. It's a broad church. I think Hoodoo, the American Mod, is one of the mostly knowledgeable and practical folks around, and Chris Claycomb, who spent many years in America is one of the most skilled.....and have you seem Mike Ameling's work ? Sometimes though, those who join seem to feel they have to teach us how to do it their 'correct' way. This group kind of gives off a feel of that vibe.
Most of us have no real idea of American geography or social dynamics, it's just a big place, over there.......and they speak English......sort of
Anglish maybe ?? atb,
Toddy
im probably a natural sceptic, but it sounds a bit cultish to me
If its as wholesome as it sounds, why is it only for over 18s
and why are active serving forces forbidden from joining, when the organisations refferences are almost entirely that of forces personel
If its as wholesome as it sounds, why is it only for over 18s
and why are active serving forces forbidden from joining, when the organisations refferences are almost entirely that of forces personel
Just a comment in passing..the military titles within American organisations ( and I'm not talking about the US military of course) but civil organisations, should not be construed to have the same meaning as Brits would attach to them. For instance, I was invited to join a US sailing organisation and was told I would be "A vice commodore." and later to progress to "Commodore." In my dealings with the US Coastguard, who were always extremely polite and helpful, I was invariably addressed as "Captain." What I'm saying is the use of military titles does not have the same emphasis as we might put on them over here.
Right, I'm off to Colonel Sanders for me chicken and chips...if you get my drift..
Right, I'm off to Colonel Sanders for me chicken and chips...if you get my drift..
I found the site aims a little surreal; they were actively promoting the gathering together of 'outsiders', lone campers, solitary walkers, foragers and the like and somehow or other trying to fit them into their system. With all it's attendant qualifications and guidelines
I go to Meets and Moots where I join a vastly diverse group of people who mostly wander solitary or in twos and threes. The thought of anyone trying to 'organise' any of these meets into some kind of 'programme' is frankly appalling. A bit like trying to herd wildcats methinks
*****Gloomhound, in the few years I have been associated with this forum I have seen more and more Americans joining. Many just don't ever seem to get comfortable, and yet others settle in happily around our virtual campfire
Sometimes though, those who join seem to feel they have to teach us how to do it their 'correct' way. This group kind of gives off a feel of that vibe.
Most of us have no real idea of American geography or social dynamics, it's just a big place, over there.......and they speak English......sort of
atb,
Toddy
Not sure that there is a correct way.
I find that you folk and the nice people over at Woodlife are more in keeping with what my idea of Bushcrafting is. (although I have taken to calling it "Woodcrafting around the house. Every time I say Bushcrafting my wife snickers and make a rude comment about needing a razor for some odd reason.) There is a US site very similar in name to this site that I have looked at. It has most of the same topics but it also has a Combat tactics forum. I do not pretend to have more than a basic understanding of what bushcrafting is, but combat tactics?
What does that have to do with bushcrafting?
I understand that there is a lot of cross over between military skills and bushcrafting, but there is a difference. This Civil Rangers sounds a little bit like that, and a whole lot like a cult of personalty. I guess it's just not my thing.
By the way I'm from West Virginia called the mountain state. It's landlocked rather small, a little smaller than Scotland with less than 2,000,000 people living in it.
to a degree i think this is the same in just about every country/ community, definately here in the UK anyway. We all work together, otherwise it'd fall apart. Accepting your position is a matter of personal opinion in a way - being happy in your job, voting in elections etc.
Sweeping the streets for a living, or running the country - we're all just worker ants. I mean this in a positive way, no conspiracy etc etc. Being a paramedic could be your 'cog'.
being a free thinking worker ant is the key, and we're all lucky enough to be just that hopefully.
I find the badge wearing doesnt suit me, i'd have loved to have been in the cubs, scouts, cadets etc as a kid but didnt like the official side of things.
So i'd go out and build dens, cook food, camp out and watch animals either with friends (mostly) or on my own. still do!
I knew enough to keep me comfy, but looking back i wish i had been involved for the wider experiences (travel for starters) that my own small mindedness prevented me from enjoying.
If you have freedom inside your head, being in a regimented regime doesnt mean you're mindless, in my opinion.
cheers
Hello there,
your comments certainly made me aware of how some things may come across to the public and deserve some reflection. I am happy to have found this site and look forward to occasional correspondence when i am around connections and so on.
I am the functional designer of this site you mention in the thread and welcome any and all questions or comments.
Pertaining to some things mentioned; it would be silly to think of members as 'cog's in a machine. The format is simply provided to give after school groups or people that meet in a formal way a sort of guideline to follow for those who enjoy such. Standards keep skills up to a level and camraderie is fun. As it turns out it is very informal and the 'rank' is sort of a self check to see where we land along the continuum. It's amazing to find so many people no the internet who carry themselves so highly and yet there are masters all over who don't even use the internet!
The encouragement for group meeting and community involvement is related to the doctrine of community preparedness, potential breaks in the status quo, and so on, where it would be useful to have a 'team' of people who are familiar with each other, are good at communicating, solving conflicts, and handling emergencies with skill and humor on a very local level.
The project is a work in process and will eventually fill some great holes left out in many people's 'training' program that they may not think about. It does blend a modern mountaineering aspect with primitive skills, but so does my primary school which you are welcome to visit and check out anytime.
www.yamabushi.us
In Western North Carolina.
I'd certainly be open to european folks participating in civil ranger goings on, perhaps I would need to change the name, U.S. Civil Ranger Corps . . .
heh .
Many of us outdoors folk enjoyed the military service and don't see structure as inherently 'worker ants mindlessly' toiling away for anothers gain or objective. It is fully possible to be independent, even rebellious, and still participate in things that help us grow and get sharper in mind and body.
cheers,
Ground Squirrel
a.k.a. Spencer 'Two Dogs'
your comments certainly made me aware of how some things may come across to the public and deserve some reflection. I am happy to have found this site and look forward to occasional correspondence when i am around connections and so on.
I am the functional designer of this site you mention in the thread and welcome any and all questions or comments.
Pertaining to some things mentioned; it would be silly to think of members as 'cog's in a machine. The format is simply provided to give after school groups or people that meet in a formal way a sort of guideline to follow for those who enjoy such. Standards keep skills up to a level and camraderie is fun. As it turns out it is very informal and the 'rank' is sort of a self check to see where we land along the continuum. It's amazing to find so many people no the internet who carry themselves so highly and yet there are masters all over who don't even use the internet!
The encouragement for group meeting and community involvement is related to the doctrine of community preparedness, potential breaks in the status quo, and so on, where it would be useful to have a 'team' of people who are familiar with each other, are good at communicating, solving conflicts, and handling emergencies with skill and humor on a very local level.
The project is a work in process and will eventually fill some great holes left out in many people's 'training' program that they may not think about. It does blend a modern mountaineering aspect with primitive skills, but so does my primary school which you are welcome to visit and check out anytime.
www.yamabushi.us
In Western North Carolina.
I'd certainly be open to european folks participating in civil ranger goings on, perhaps I would need to change the name, U.S. Civil Ranger Corps . . .
heh .
Many of us outdoors folk enjoyed the military service and don't see structure as inherently 'worker ants mindlessly' toiling away for anothers gain or objective. It is fully possible to be independent, even rebellious, and still participate in things that help us grow and get sharper in mind and body.
cheers,
Ground Squirrel
a.k.a. Spencer 'Two Dogs'
I think that part of scouting varies depending on which group you go to. some groups are fairly tightly regimented, while others the badges are more or less ceremonial.
for example in the group I attend, a patrol leader (untill recently) was simply the oldest person in the patrol (assuming they had a reasonable amount of experience, say 1 year or so) and so the PLs stripes where simply a marker of age, nothing more. if as a pl you asked a scout to do some thing they didn't particuly want to do, they would quite happily tell you where to stick it. some other groups that would be unthinkable.
equaly badges are something that are more or less optional in our group. for a long time I was known as the resident "survival expert" (translation I had a survival tin, enjoyed camps where we where doing stuff like fire making and shelter building, and watched ray mears) but didn't hold any badges even closely related to that (I had the camp cooks badge (which needs you to cook over an altar fire, and do stuff with bottled gas, an athletics badge which I'm not totaly sure why i got, a dragon boating badge, and the creative challange badge, alongside the "nights away" badge) point is that the skills badges where more a case of "what have we done intending to do a badge" than "this is showing this person is skilled in this area" most people had more or less the same badges, depending on when they joined (and so which badges they had been involved in)
But I do know it's not everyones cup of tea, and if it didn't suit you, fair play, at least you considered it, rather than the automatic "scouts is weird" response I seem to get from a lot of my school friends
They got their "10 commandments", the last being "I will not fear death"
And your academics still get fast tracked .
But overall it doesnt sound that bad. I agree with "ye grumpy one" about enforced collectivism being indoctrinated in schools, but unless folk are compelled to join this ranger group, or its some sinister trojan horse neo nazi woodland folk cult type cover-then why not, its not for any of us outside America to decide if its apalling or whatever. I expect some like to get away from their wife for a few days, oh and if theres no women in it then thats a good thing too. I dont get this feminist thing where women assert their rights to gatecrash into every area of male activity-to take it over and organise it basically
And your academics still get fast tracked
.But overall it doesnt sound that bad. I agree with "ye grumpy one" about enforced collectivism being indoctrinated in schools, but unless folk are compelled to join this ranger group, or its some sinister trojan horse neo nazi woodland folk cult type cover-then why not, its not for any of us outside America to decide if its apalling or whatever. I expect some like to get away from their wife for a few days, oh and if theres no women in it then thats a good thing too. I dont get this feminist thing where women assert their rights to gatecrash into every area of male activity-to take it over and organise it basically
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