Cheaper alternative to meths ?

[rik_uk3]

Nobody jumped on a high fence, whatever that is, though if anything people normally jump over them! There was no diatribe except for your ill-considered outburst. There is nothing wrong with gently reminding or informing people when someone suggests an alternative that they need to have some background knowledge.

The WHOLE point is that Methanol IS more dangerous if you drink, inhale or wash in it, and is often in a pure form so difficult to differentiate from ethanol! Many people get Meths all over their hands when using it and leave it around where children could access it. Adults, children and others don't usually have the 'unCOMMON' sense/knowledge that Methanol can kill and blind in very small quantities. Meths will make someone ill, Methanol can blind and kill, it is irresponsible to not gently point that out to those that may not know or to attack people for doing so. I'm guessing you don't have to deal with COSHH in your job as a Scientist! I could have said things more strongly but I think that will suffice. :twak:

Not since I retired from nursing (I've never been a scientist) where we used potentially life threatening drugs (on patients) everyday, generally speaking we were careful and tried not to kill too many through leaving them out and about for people to get their hands on and consume willy nilly.

Go and look at the data on the likes of Coleman Fuel, Aspen 4T, Panel Wipe, Paraffin. Do you leave any of those around for children to access? Do you wash/inhale/drink any of them? Sniff butane gas maybe? Methanol is no more dangerous than any other of the potentially toxic fuels millions of happy campers use every day all over the world.

 

[Tony]

Guys c'mon this isnt about which is dangerous its about what is the cheaper alternative !
if you want to argue about the chemical composition and which is more dangerous be my guest to do it over in your own posts/private messages ! don't come on here and moan when i asked about what is cheaper not what is more dangerous !

Guys, the OP asked politely that this thread that he started stays on track, it would be nice if he could be accommodated, if you want to discuss safety etc then start another thread, if its becoming a personal issue then go somewhere else entirely

 

[Midnitehound]

rik_uk3 - I've addressed the issues from a qualified perspective now give it a rest will you, we aren't interested. If you have something specific about cost or an alternative (per OP) then great otherwise just stop going on and on about nothing.

Mandos et al - I bought 25L of IPA sometime ago from here I believe:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25-LITRES...Equipment_Lab_Supplies_ET&hash=item19e64d0a2f

£1.50/L

Their office is local to me and I dropped in a little while ago to ask them about supply and whether I could avoid the courier charge which unfortunately makes up a BIG part of the cost. . They are a nice bunch, professional and very helpful. They are a big manufacturer and supplier of chems but are branching out into supplying small amounts on Ebay. They aim to be the cheapest. I was actually after getting Fast panel wipe (most volatile like Coleman fuel) from them cheap.

I am planning on giving IPA a try as lannyman8 says he has success with it. Its energy density is greater than Methanol which is only about 2/3 of ethanol by volume.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol#Toxicology - It is less toxic than Methanol too.

Perhaps there would be somewhere local that will supply this to save on courier costs.

Re. info. Mandos, my pleasure. Interesting stuff these guys are working on. Perhaps an idea for an impressive dissertation. You could of course go with: the efficient clean burn of cheap abundant fuels for cooking.

 

[Tony]

I find it hard to believe that you've just posted that Phil, it wasn't a last chance to get the last word in, a farewell snipe at someone it was unnecessary and not the first time this week that that you've not been able to take on board what you're being asked, you've got to learn to leave stuff alone and what's appropriate and what's not.

 

[sparkie]

Or you could buy a water distiller , and make your own ethanol and methanol from out of date homebrew wine , ....but it is totally illegal

In theory you could take a big just and stir in dry ice which will freeze out the water , leaving a mix of alcohols. Simply brandy made from Apple cider (apple jack in USA , in Pre USA days, when we were Brits). But is it worth the cost, I doubt it. If you started with juice or just sugar water and pitched Sherry yeast you will get about 17% mixed spirits and water. In theory, (I would not drink this stuff, nor make it), you get 17 gallons for each 100 gallons you make. Can not be worth it. A hot Still could be, but the Jail time is simply not worth it.

In the USA you can apply for a permit to make alky spirit for fuel, as long as it is denatured. If you live on a farm or in a rural area this could be useful. (here) You should check to see if you can make your own fuels legally in the UK.

Apple Jack will give you a fierce headache and over time can hurt you , as it has meth spirits in with the ethanol. Distillers remove the beginning run of spirits as they are methanol, not ethanol, this is the "Heads". The better you do this the better the booze, add to it quality barrel aging and you get a fine product, if you leave too much of the head in it, it is nasty. Fruits tend to make more methanol then grains, and Apple Jack being a cryogenic distilling of sorts, does not remove the meth spirit, but rather, intensifies it. You also can not remove the fusil oils/"Tails", from the mix.

ttfn

 

[sparkie]

TRY a race track, he in USA if you go to a "speed shop" or race track you can buy spirits in drums and 5-10 gallon lots. If you find a "sped shop" that sells it, you bring 5 gallon Legit storage containers (marked/flagged for alcohol), and they will sell it to you by the gallon.

Spirits are hygroscopic so you need various sizes to maintain purity and no water retention.

Helpful?

In UK you perhaps do not have the speed freaks we do, so there may not be "speed shops" or accessible auto race tracks.

 

[NS40]

I know it's not an alternative but certainly the cheapest I've seen anywhere. I was in B&M stores a couple of days ago and they have 500ml bottle of meths for £1.60. I got a couple of bottles but think I might stock up.

 

[tent peg]

I know it's not an alternative but certainly the cheapest I've seen anywhere. I was in B&M stores a couple of days ago and they have 500ml bottle of meths for £1.60. I got a couple of bottles but think I might stock up.

b and m bargains?

 

[NS40]

Yep tent peg. Certainly my local one had loads in stock so i'll be going back for more.

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[tent peg]

that is very cheap, I can't find it in my local though.

 

[ged]

Meths is Methanol but with an added ingredient to make you sick, as methanol makes you drunk ..and Blind , Alcohol boils at a lower temperature than water Meths at 75oC ish and ethanol at around 80oC so when boiling with a still the first 100 or so ml is the nasty stuff as it boils off first ....er ...apparently

Meths is not methanol. Meths is methylated ethanol, in other words ethanol with perhaps ten percent methanol (the ingredient which makes you ill) plus dyes and/or unpleasant flavourings, depending on maker and jurisdiction.

I was going to follow that with some references and stuff but since we're being urged to stay strictly on-topic I'd just say that Big Si of this parish seems to be able to buy methanol rather cheaply somewhere in Nottinghamshire, although as I don't use it myself I haven't asked him where.

 

[Mandos]

Thank you for staying on topic

 

[tent peg]

Had a word in B&Q about the hacienda fuel (third store I had tried) and they say BioEthanol is difficult to keep in stock, supply is low and that which arrives in store is usually all pre-reserved so little gets to the shelf. Add to this that it is only available in larger stores so the cost of petrol to drive there means its not the viable alternative it seems. They may have more stock in the summer months, but atm there isn't a realiable source unless you buy in bulk over the internet.

 

[Jonbodthethird]

Last person to ask this question started a massive debate and it all went silly.. But I will say this methanol is very cheap bought 10 litres from eBay for £20. Up to you of you want to use. Because apparently you can go blind?! If you bath in it... :/


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[Jonbodthethird]

It seems to burn cleaner too!


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[racer66]

I have just got the bio ethanol from a camp shop in exeter. £3.95 for 750ml which other than the £2.95 500 ml meths in the discount store, I had no choice. It's for my 12-10 stove and also got some esbit for the gram cracker. Tomo walk on dartmoor with tri ti stove.

 

[Shewie]

It seems to burn cleaner too!


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I find it's a cleaner burn but I've also noticed it's not as efficient as straight meths, I'll be interested to hear what you think.

I bought a 5L container off ebay a few years ago for £16 delivered, I've still got a third or so of it left, once that's gone I'll be back to Mica for 5L of meths for £10