Change to the law on bird pest control

Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
8,276
1,374
McBride, BC
Here, the farmers can invite shooters to hunt over damaged crops.
A flock thousand 15-20 lb Canada Geese can destroy a pea field in a day.
I had absolutely no idea of the intensity of the damage until I stood in the middle of it.

We had a deal to share the birds that I dropped. It was a good deal for us both.
I was allowed to store my decoys under some spruce trees in the middle of the field as well.
Of course, I had the needed licenses, there seemed no relief from those costs.
 

Lou

Full Member
Feb 16, 2011
631
70
the French Alps
twitter.com
Banning would probably be extreme (even it were realistically possible) Heavy fines for people who let their cats wander loose might be realistic.

We have an almost unbelievable problem here with feral cats. Is that common there as well?
It is not so bad here, as I live in a low populated area but it is just on my mind right now as my next door neighbour currently has four cats to control the mice and of course, you think they are not having an impact but having been able to watch them at length it is true that they kill EVERYTHING that moves; mice yes but also shrews, voles, dormice, snakes, birds, bats, frogs, newts, the list goes on and that's just for fun. I sometimes think our village has been completely cleared of all those forms of life. A quote from Mr. Packham himself: "Britain's cats are estimated to catch up to 275 million prey animals a year, including 55 million birds". Netting a few hedges, trees and cliffs pales in comparison.

People have recently been talking about New Zealand 'banning' cats as they have virtually wiped out the native animals but looking into it I discovered that it's an urban myth - one town had thought about banning cats but it never happened. And no, of course it will never be implemented because although it is totally feasible, cat-lovers, breeders etc. would never allow it to happen.

and btw @Broch that was a great reply
 
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MinTheLab

Member
Feb 24, 2019
31
16
44
A farm in Nottinghamshire
OK, let's be clear on a few things first:

1) Chris Packham is far from a "dreamy armchair environmentalists"; whether you agree with him or not he is a very experienced and knowledgeable naturalist. He understands the science and the politics of the situation.

2) All they have done is point out that farmers, gamekeepers and landowners have been breaking the law using the general license in the way they have so either the law must be changed, the killing stops, or the perpetrators are prosecuted - NE have decided to stop issuing licenses until it can be sorted.

There's always a third truth that will fall between these two extremes. We would probably all agree that pest levels of wildlife need to be controlled (even vegetarians will have to concede that it will protect the supply of vegetables) but if there is no policing or control on who does the killing, how the killing is done, and to what level (as is/was the current/yesterday's position) wildlife doesn't stand a chance. To put it into perspective (and I joke not) the farmers around here couldn't tell you the difference between a raven a crow and a rook - should they be doing the killing?
Now this is where I agree. The GL has been exploited for as long as it’s been around. I’ve been very vocal on shooting forums about this, and have warned that the GL will be challenged due to people taking liberty.

Shooting pigeons in the garden because they have crapped on a bbq.

Paid days pigeon shooting not knowing if the landowner has exhausted all non lethal methods.

I don’t know where you live, but myself and my companion farmers put huge efforts into conservation, laying acres to wildflower etc.

I think something good will come out of this. Hopefully stop the random shooting of pigeons/forbids, they are protected and should only be shot for good reason.

A lot of ‘pigeon guides’ will be upset about this, and for good reason.
 
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Janne

Guest
Feb 10, 2016
12,368
2,256
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
Even if all pests are removed, and the farmer will harvest 100% of the potential amount, he/she will still make the same money.
why?
Supply and demand.
Larger production - prices will drop.

I do not understand why birds of prey are shot.
The eagles in southern Sweden got extinct because the farmers' Old Wifes said that eagles take newborn lamb, and peck out the eyes of newborn calves. And could take little Sven from the pram.
So the men shot them, usually by finding the nests and perforating the eggs and mama from below with shot.
Then the other ones


As a child, me and dad used to drive long distances to see hawks and such. I am talking a couple of hundred kilometers.
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,190
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-------------
Doubt it will make much difference to that gamekeeper from Leadhills poisening bait to kill birds of prey then getting an utter joke of a slap on the wrist when he was caught.
Can't remember his name now but I'd be willing to put a fiver on his boss being in on it too.

A quick Google throws his name up and as I believe in things like that following a chap about his name is Lewis Whitham.
He was convicted so theres no doubt about it, just in case sombody whines about me putting it up.
 
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MinTheLab

Member
Feb 24, 2019
31
16
44
A farm in Nottinghamshire
Even if all pests are removed, and the farmer will harvest 100% of the potential amount, he/she will still make the same money.
why?
Supply and demand.
Larger production - prices will drop.

I do not understand why birds of prey are shot.
The eagles in southern Sweden got extinct because the farmers' Old Wifes said that eagles take newborn lamb, and peck out the eyes of newborn calves. And could take little Sven from the pram.
So the men shot them, usually by finding the nests and perforating the eggs and mama from below with shot.
Then the other ones


As a child, me and dad used to drive long distances to see hawks and such. I am talking a couple of hundred kilometers.
Birds of prey are generally not shot on the uk, there’s not a lot of them compared to pigeon numbers.

Supply and demand isn’t that simple.

The higher price paid for lower yields are not passed onto the primary supplier, hence why we sold the dairy cattle, it cost us more to produce milk than to sell it.

I have recent experience of corvids killing lambs, sort of, having their back of necks mutilated or haveeyes popped, then I’ve had to shoot the lamb.

That’s a terrific loss as most of my ewes have turned out singletons this year.
 

Janne

Guest
Feb 10, 2016
12,368
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Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
When that happened to my friend in Sweden, he ate the lamb. Or calf.

The mother should protect it, so has the mother protecting instinct been bred away?

Was the lamb healthy?

( just pushing ideas around)
 

MinTheLab

Member
Feb 24, 2019
31
16
44
A farm in Nottinghamshire
Doubt it will make much difference to that gamekeeper from Leadhills poisening bait to kill birds of prey then getting an utter joke of a slap on the wrist when he was caught.
Can't remember his name now but I'd be willing to put a fiver on his boss being in on it too.

A quick Google throws his name up and as I believe in things like that following a chap about his name is Lewis Whitham.
He was convicted so theres no doubt about it, just in case sombody whines about me putting it up.
Well it won’t make difference to him will it, I don’t understand your post?
 

MinTheLab

Member
Feb 24, 2019
31
16
44
A farm in Nottinghamshire
When that happened to my friend in Sweden, he ate the lamb. Or calf.

The mother should protect it, so has the mother protecting instinct been bred away?

Was the lamb healthy?

( just pushing ideas around)
Healthy? Without eyes?

In the short time I’ve been on this forum I’ve noticed you are a clever person.

This is a common phenomenon with corvids in the uk. I want to sell decent, market weight animals, injuries mean the loss of the animal. Vet fees for things I can’t treat make the animal a loss.
 

Janne

Guest
Feb 10, 2016
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Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
Not funny.
Yes, I like to call a spade a spade. Not English, am I? No sense of decorum etc...
Healthy before the attack of course.

My friend told me weak lamb and calves were often attacked, that sometimes the mother even abandoned them, so foxes and other animals took them.

If he saw a repeated problem with a female (mother) , he slaughtered her.
 

MinTheLab

Member
Feb 24, 2019
31
16
44
A farm in Nottinghamshire
Not funny.
Yes, I like to call a spade a spade. Not English, am I? No sense of decorum etc...
Healthy before the attack of course.

My friend told me weak lamb and calves were often attacked, that sometimes the mother even abandoned them, so foxes and other animals took them.

If he saw a repeated problem with a female (mother) , he slaughtered her.
I’m sorry, I had no intention to offend you.

I’m just a bit heightened about this, it has had major impacts on my family business.

Best wishes
 
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Janne

Guest
Feb 10, 2016
12,368
2,256
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
I am sorry too if I offended you.

It is always sad when stuff like that happens.

The Farmers as a group need to get active and get vocal in the ban.
Maybe not create havoc in central London, but do something.

Good Night!
 
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Janne

Guest
Feb 10, 2016
12,368
2,256
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
Had I lived closer to you, you would get orders for me.
Hoggett.. The best meat.

Impossible to get these days. I would even buy that older eve from you.....

(That is what comes with age, the straight talking, and taste for REAL meat! :)
That is how I met my longtime friends, the farmers. My chase for good food.. )
 
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MinTheLab

Member
Feb 24, 2019
31
16
44
A farm in Nottinghamshire
Had I lived closer to you, you would get orders for me.
Hoggett.. The best meat.

Impossible to get these days. I would even buy that older eve from you.....

(That is what comes with age, the straight talking, and taste for REAL meat! :)
That is how I met my longtime friends, the farmers. My chase for good food.. )
As much as I dislike lamb, I agree, hogget is the way forward, it is far better.

My choice is venison, Chinese water deer, abundant, easy to shoot and simply the best deer to eat.

I’m rather fond of pigeon, but that’s a mute point at the minute!
 
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daveO

Native
Jun 22, 2009
1,326
406
South Wales
There's always a third truth that will fall between these two extremes. We would probably all agree that pest levels of wildlife need to be controlled (even vegetarians will have to concede that it will protect the supply of vegetables) but if there is no policing or control on who does the killing, how the killing is done, and to what level (as is/was the current/yesterday's position) wildlife doesn't stand a chance. To put it into perspective (and I joke not) the farmers around here couldn't tell you the difference between a raven a crow and a rook - should they be doing the killing?
Even the RSPB cull pest species of birds on their reserves to protect eggs and chicks etc. Packham will be well aware that this legal challenge will have a negative impact on protected species this year so I wouldn't have thought he'd have approached this lightly.

I've met several people while out walking around here though who were out shooting crows illegally 'to protect the lambs'. Speaking to one of the local farmers recently he told me he feeds the ravens during lambing and never has a problem with them going after the lambs.