chainsaw advice needed

[marok6]

Hello all,
I am new here and have been prompted by a need for chainsaw advice that hpefully someone can provide or push me in the direction of. Story goes;
I recently purchased a stihl ms 181 chainsaw in Derby (will omit shop name for the moment) I asked for everything that I could need to maintain the item and advice as I was new to the use of petrol chainsaws and was taking it with me abroad for a busmans holiday. They seemed helpful and sold me everything I needed and gave me good advice , or so I believed.
I am now abroad and having used the chainsaw everthing was fine for the first couple of days use, then I noticed the bar and chain was working loose. I referred to the manual which said tensioning may be required more often at the start of tools life, followed instructions and continued , it happened again this time I noticed that the nut holding the cover which keeps the bar and chain in place keeps unwinding itself when I press the revs down.
Initial enquiries led me to the fact that the bar/chain could be getting hot due to lack of lubrication for the chain. I thought this could not be so since I had checked the tank for the chain and kept toped up with a tube of lubrication which the sales assistant had told me to use and how. This is when I discovered the the lubrication that he had given me was a grease lube for trimmers etc and not a synth oil that I needed. I got in touch with the shop to explain what had happened and was told that it was my mistake and ignorance because his staff where too well trained and not that stupid and therefore refused to accept any responsibilties even though I told him to check the billing and he would see that if I was sold everthing that I would need to maintain the saw how come I had so much lube and no oil.
Now after such a long story I hope some of you are still with me , I have cleaned the tank out of as much of the grease as I could manage and topped it up with the correct oil. I have let the motor run until I have finally gotten a very slight spray of oil of the chain. However the motor and everything is still getting extremely hot and the nut is still unwinding need help as the shop is being unhelpful.
thanks
mar

 

[firebear]

Did you grease the nosewheel? I have kept the bar cool just by over greasing.

 

[marok6]

Yes, I have since greased the nose wheel , but this has not stopped it. I have noticed that the front part of the motor gets boiling hot is this normal.

 

[marok6]

Yes, I have since greased the nose wheel , but this has not stopped it. I have noticed that the front part of the motor gets boiling hot is this normal.

It must be said that this chainsaw has probably not run more than 8-10 hours.

 

[firebear]

Using a 50:1 mix gas and oil, the only thing I can think of would be the carb settings, improper mix through the carb can cause the engine to burn up, have that checked.

 

[demographic]

I can't say I've seen a MS181 but on my Stihl 017 there's two bar nuts that hold the bar in place as well as the side cover on, there's also a chain tensioning screw. to tension the chain I loosen the two bar nuts with the Stihl "Scrench" which is like a plug spanner, a bar nut spanner and screwdriver all in one and then adjust the bar tensioning screw with the screwdriver part.
When the chain tension is right I tighten up the two bar nuts to keep the tension right and stop the bar from flopping about.
The newer Stihls have a different system with a quick release thingy but I've never used a new Stihl with this setup, did you get a user manual with it?
I reckon to use about two tanks of petroil to one of bar oil with my little 017 and check the bar oil every time I fill up the two stroke petroil mix.

As a side note, I have put a couple of general chainsaw safety and chain stuff on my Scribd account, obviously they are no substitute for proper training and protective equipment so don't come running to me if you chop your legs off.
Tree Felling
Carlton Chain Sharpening Book
Also this picture is for the number and areas of the body that get damaged due to chainsaw accidents in one year.
It should give anyone contemplating using a chainsaw a pause for thought.

 

[water badger]

right on a stihl the ammount of oil is controled by a screw located under the saw (on the base) to the side of a symbol resembling a chain link adjusted with a tuning screw driver (supplied in the kit) when you start the saw hold it on the ground over a flat area of bark or dry leaves rev the saw with the chain break off (so chain is spinning) a slick of oil should appear! (if not the worm gear is not pumping or worst case oil pump is seased)
as to the bar nuts loosening I have never had this in 20 years they do however need to be v tight. (however new chains do streach)

as to warrantee you need to ensure store owner is admitin liability !! ( all saws should be fully pdi before handover)

any further problems PM me or post problems

 

[bbdave]

An added note to the above checks make sure you rest the end of the bar on something and hold the rear up when tightening the nuts to ensure the bar is fully located you really do need to tighten the nut though, i have had them vibrate off in the past as the whole machine gets very hot and oil very thin helping loosen them.

Dave

 

[marok6]

Hi, with this stihl there is only a single nut holding the side cover on and therefore the bar in place . As for the carb settings this is something that would be alien to me, I am a joiner/shopfitter and am used to tools and general safety and use however petrol tools and carbs are something that are new to me and I have no experience of. As for the shop , they gave me improper information and the complete wrong lube for the tool this is something only I and my friend who was with me can verify and the tool shop owner is unwilling to accept that his staff are capable of such a mistake/stupidity even though my bill shows me that I purchased everything I should have needed including hedge trimmer gearbox grease? but no oil. The owner is being pig headed , no such thing as the customer is always right , so am stuck as regards that for the moment.

 

[marok6]

To be honest I really want to bad mouth the shop due to the way I was spoken to by the owner over the phone with me calling from abroad and informing him of this, especially since this is not my only issue with the shop. As I said at the time they seemed helpful so shortly after I purchased a second hand strimmer ( stihl fs87) with a seperate blade, so I returned to the shop for more advice and pieces the young assdistant was so hgelpful he gave me a free bolt/nut to fit the blade and fitted it for me.
As I have said outdoor petrol tools are new to me so I do(did not know how to expect them to behave and run, there was quite a bit of vibration on the strimmer whichg I didn't think too much of until it broke the housing away from the shaft ( am used to some tools giving a lot of feed back in joinery when doing heavy work).
I was told by a shop in Hungary where I currently am that this damage was purely the result of a badly fitted blade, my mistake was ignorance and the assumption that if the assistant fitted it it must be right as this is his job, right?
So what can I say am feeling stupid at my own lack of knowlege ,but that is why I went to a supposed more proffesional shop where I assumed that good advice and help would be given and this is the bit that makes me angry even more so with their response to my problems.

 

[firebear]

I hear you, have run into more than a few myself. About the saw, some depends on what you are calling hot, they will get hot, to hot to touch after a bit. The harder you are working it the hotter it will get, with now paint and all it may seem hotter than it is. I don't know if this is the case but I think having someone check the carb mixture settings would be a good thing as the chrome lining of the cylinder wall will peel off and that is not a good thing.

 

[water badger]

the cylinders are nickle cadiam plated if i remeber right and once gone will cost more than the saw to fix !

 

[bbdave]

I'm not sure unless the shop admits to miss informing you your up a creek really.
Probably best to take it to a dealer to get it checked out

Lubrication is kind of the basics the instructions should cover it in depth and a large section of the chainsaw ticket course covers it but i doubt many get training on such a lethal piece of kit.

I have removed myself from many a wood after watching the untrained operate their saws with no respect.

Dave

 

[sandbender]

"... I was told by a shop in Hungary..."

The main Stihl place is a little to the west of Budapest, if you can speak Hungarian then give them a call, I have met some of their guys at an exhibition and they were pretty switched on and approachable.

ANDREAS STIHL Kereskedelmi Kft.
H-2051 Biatorbágy-Budapark
Paul Hartmann utca 4.

Tel.: +36 23 418-054
Fax: +36 23 418-106
E-Mail: info@stihl.hu
Web: http://www.stihl.hu/

 

[demographic]

Hi, with this stihl there is only a single nut holding the side cover on and therefore the bar in place . As for the carb settings this is something that would be alien to me, I am a joiner/shopfitter and am used to tools and general safety and use however petrol tools and carbs are something that are new to me and I have no experience of. As for the shop , they gave me improper information and the complete wrong lube for the tool this is something only I and my friend who was with me can verify and the tool shop owner is unwilling to accept that his staff are capable of such a mistake/stupidity even though my bill shows me that I purchased everything I should have needed including hedge trimmer gearbox grease? but no oil. The owner is being pig headed , no such thing as the customer is always right , so am stuck as regards that for the moment.

Just had a look about the MS181 and is it this one with a single proper nut...

Or like this with the quick release doo daah?

If its the latter there's an owners manual in PDF form HERE

Also by the looks of it it has the new intellecarb carburettor setup which as far as I remember (don't quote me cos I might be wrong) means its non adjustable with fixed jets.

 

[marok6]

Yes it is the one with the single proper nut. And yes that is the manual which I keep checking .I have followed the instructions contained my initial fault was putting the incorrect lube int the chain tank due to my ignorance and poor advice, but have followed everything to the letter.
There are instruction for adjustments for the carb contained within however my lack of knowledge regarding how one should sound when set right which prevents me from playing with them in case it makes things worse. I think my only recourse for a clear mind is to take it to stihl for a look over and hope all is well.

 

[addo]

I don't bother getting advice from dealers as its not worth it, Ive had too much useless pompous advice and poorly presented new kit, with the exception of Ron Hind's in Chad, which was the best. Shame he's not there any more.
Cheaper in the long run to get your chainsaw licence.
You will learn absolutely loads about chainsaw maintenance, and the use of them, with folks falling over to get you to work for them.

I've never had the problem you have. Try washing out the oil tank with petrol, leaving to soak through for a while before emptying, and refill with some good chain oil.

Don't over tension the nut on the side or the chain. Its not needed and you could damage it, or alter the actual tension.

Hope you get it sorted chap.

 

[marok6]

Since you know the area, the owner of the stihl supplier on Alfreton rd derby . Dreadful attitude and poor advice but keen. I say no more.
thanks for the advice all

 

[robin wood]

Personally I think you are right, the shop owner is a muppet for selling a dangerous tool to someone who clearly had no idea how to use it or maintain it. I guess you could learn how to use and maintain a chainsaw from the little booklet that comes with them and internet forums but it is shall we say a high risk strategy. I am sure when it goes pear shaped it won't be your fault.

 

[marok6]

To help ease your mind and attitude , yes I may be ignorant and inexperienced when it comes to the oil/maintenance set up on petrol tools. However my issue was with poor advice given regarding that maintenance. Yes I agree a ticket/training would help improve me in this area, however to assume a lack of competance and willingness to blame others for that is I believe a mistake you are making.
I have spent 25 years working with/using woodworking machinary of all sizes within workshops and on site . I have full PPE for the tool in question and my own work in particular I do not go off without having respect for the tools I use which is something I have learnt , fortunately,from secondhand experience of seeing others with gungho attitudes come unstuck to sometimes serious consequences.
I came here to garner more information and advice, yes I did criticise the seller because he gave me the wrong lube for the job which could of lead to failure of the tool. My criticism of the owner was in regards his attitude that his staff are infallible and do not make mistakes, this assumption like most assumption is a poor one . Everyone makes mistakes no matter how well trained ,we are human after all ,as a retailer being unwilling to accept this and talk reasonably is poor business .
I feel that you have made a judgement on limited facts and with no personal knowledge of myself and attitude towards my tools and trade which I think is uncalled for and jumping the gun.