Canoe recommendations? Single man preferably.
- Thread starter LtDansLegs
- Start date
Looking nice Roughneck 
Just a query, it's not clear but the loops inside the boat look a touch large on the photos. They only need to be big enough to get a strap, rope, or carabiner through; anything large enough to get a hand in (and trapped if you go over) could be considered dangerous.
I totally agree, time spent with Ray is definitely worth it.
Just a query, it's not clear but the loops inside the boat look a touch large on the photos. They only need to be big enough to get a strap, rope, or carabiner through; anything large enough to get a hand in (and trapped if you go over) could be considered dangerous.
I totally agree, time spent with Ray is definitely worth it.
Generally airbags will do two things, they displace water and give you more buoyancy. Meaning your boat will sit higher out of the water and less water will swamp your boat if you do capsize.
Those side airbags Roughneck has fitted will help with self rescue as they will support your weight when you pull yourself back in.
Makes sense just never heard of them before.
The canoes I have been in required motivation to flip them.
Kayaks on the other hand the current can tip and racing kayaks are worse.
One point to clarify. Hull length affects speed because of the bow wavelength. Imagine the bow wave getting bigger as you go faster, eventually you'll end up with one wavelength as you're cruising along. Wavelength is in relation to hull speed. Of course if you could paddle faster you'd effectively be planing as the wave would be greater than your hull length. That would need an engine better than any human.
Or that's what's a very rough paraphrase of the section on boat design in the old BCU handbook I got in my old canoeing days when in thought I wanted to get my coaching awards.
One other point, avoid whitewater canoes. Short with high rocker. Trust me they're a bit tricky to paddle. A mate got one which was difficult in whitewater but his second canoe was a freestyle c1 with a closed deck like a kayak. On a grade 3 river at our lunch break we were at an eddy my grade 1 or possibly 2 water. Despite some very capable grade 5 kayakers only two people could get out of the eddy into current upright! Fun if you're very good but not good otherwise.
Or that's what's a very rough paraphrase of the section on boat design in the old BCU handbook I got in my old canoeing days when in thought I wanted to get my coaching awards.
One other point, avoid whitewater canoes. Short with high rocker. Trust me they're a bit tricky to paddle. A mate got one which was difficult in whitewater but his second canoe was a freestyle c1 with a closed deck like a kayak. On a grade 3 river at our lunch break we were at an eddy my grade 1 or possibly 2 water. Despite some very capable grade 5 kayakers only two people could get out of the eddy into current upright! Fun if you're very good but not good otherwise.
Perfectly explained, Yes they do take up room but I see them as a form of insurance although practice is essential to get back in which I have tried in our local river with a slow flow. Centre ones are not used all the time.
This clip really does show the advantageous of which setup you decide.
LOL - all so easy with an empty boat in placid or slow moving water
With a boat full of a week's trekking gear it's a different story. It's difficult to even lift the boat over let alone anything else. All instruction and demonstration is done with an empty boat. In real life, loaded boat, fast water, you end up following the boat downstream until you can get to a sand bank - just make sure you stay upstream of a loaded boat
With a boat full of a week's trekking gear it's a different story. It's difficult to even lift the boat over let alone anything else. All instruction and demonstration is done with an empty boat. In real life, loaded boat, fast water, you end up following the boat downstream until you can get to a sand bank - just make sure you stay upstream of a loaded boat
Do you know if there any information on length vs width vs height?
Just wondered if they had designed the perfect transport canoe.
Also Ray in one of his shows has his canoe on an edge when paddling it and I wondered what that did to speed etc?
With kayaks especially longer boats like sea kayaks you edge to the outside of the turn iirc. You push on your foot rest in the right and raise your knee on the left while keeping your body weight and balance central. Paddle with a sweep stroke on the right and the wing to the right helps your paddle stroke to turn the boat quicker. You can edge to counteract forces trying to turn the other way too. If that makes sense.
Edging is a skill worth learning in kayaks. Not sure about canoes tbh, not my thing back in the day when I paddled.
I guess it's similar plus with the single blade paddle I suspect edging a canoe could have the effect of counteracting the forward strokes turning effect thus preventing the amount of turning effect needed from the paddle. What I mean is to paddle forward with only strokes on one side edging might reduce the degree of the j stroke or other stroke needed to maintain straight line paddling. If that makes sense.
As I said, canoeing wasn't my thing but whitewater kayaking was. I know a little of canoeing skills but that's so little of it done by me so I kind of forgotten a lot of the details. Someone else will know more about this.
Edging is a skill worth learning in kayaks. Not sure about canoes tbh, not my thing back in the day when I paddled.
I guess it's similar plus with the single blade paddle I suspect edging a canoe could have the effect of counteracting the forward strokes turning effect thus preventing the amount of turning effect needed from the paddle. What I mean is to paddle forward with only strokes on one side edging might reduce the degree of the j stroke or other stroke needed to maintain straight line paddling. If that makes sense.
As I said, canoeing wasn't my thing but whitewater kayaking was. I know a little of canoeing skills but that's so little of it done by me so I kind of forgotten a lot of the details. Someone else will know more about this.
Boat design is a big subject and I only know a little. If you can get hold of a good canoeing book you'll learn more than I can give on design. Iirc the BCU handbook has a reasonable section on boat design and performance.
If I was to guess I'd say long and narrow with a low rocker is faster, short and wider with acceptance big rocker is better to turn quickly but with less speed. Rocker being the degree of rise of the Hull at each end. High rocker is banana shape if you like.
Height of boat I reckon doesn't have too much effect on performance I think except for windage. That's where a higher height above the water line catches a side wind more. It can be a big effect where you need to paddle diagonally on a lake to paddle forwards. It's why a sea kayak has low sides.
If I was to guess I'd say long and narrow with a low rocker is faster, short and wider with acceptance big rocker is better to turn quickly but with less speed. Rocker being the degree of rise of the Hull at each end. High rocker is banana shape if you like.
Height of boat I reckon doesn't have too much effect on performance I think except for windage. That's where a higher height above the water line catches a side wind more. It can be a big effect where you need to paddle diagonally on a lake to paddle forwards. It's why a sea kayak has low sides.
Edging in a canoe is absolutely essential. Every turn you make, the same as a kayak you should edge. It just depends on how aggressive you need to be in what situation. Edging does come a little more naturally in a canoe though and most people don't realize hoe simple and easy it can be.
Hull shape will also come into play as it completely changes the footprint of your boat and in turn how you and your boat interact with the water. For example Mad River Canoes have a V shape hull, however an Old town is flat bottomed with steep chines and high sides so both of those hull shapes will interact with the water differently, and shifting weight about the boat will also have its advantages and disadvantages with each hull shape.
Hi Roughneck
Great to hear about the new Canoe, sounds just the business. Not bought my Canoe as of yet, leaning towards an Apache Trekk 15, heard good things from the Song of the Paddle. Hopefully get fully kitted by summer next year and go from there.
Cheers for the explanation about the length of the canoe and its speed, it another reason I'm leaning towards a tandem canoe even if I'll be using it mostly solo.
Many thanks
LTDansLegs
I don't think you'll regret it, it's a nice boat, very responsive. It is a little heavy though as I said earlier (but you're young, you'll have no problem
). The Guys at Apache (Stu and Mark) are great and have helped me out a lot even though I bought mine second hand.Just wondering if its possible to store anything under an airbag when travelling, having the airbags raised above the top of the canoe? Just looks like the bags take up quite a bit of room and packing supplies on top of the air bags will raise my center of mass (reducing stability). When will I need the airbags?
Many thanks
LTDansLegs
Many thanks
LTDansLegs
You can get away with relatively small airbags - they just have to make your canoe lighter than water. Of course, the bigger the airbag, the easier it is to deal with a swamped canoe - even making it possible to paddle it; you can't with small ones. I use solid foam types (i.e. they don't inflate) because a damaged airbag is useless. Also, when your canoe is loaded with gear, all the air trapped in the waterproof packing bags acts as floatation bags and, consequently, some people don't use air bags in a properly loaded canoe - make sure your gear is all tightly strapped in mind.
You keep your gear low for more than one reason - yes, heavy gear high up makes the boat less stable, but anything above the gunwales will catch the wind and make a windy day a misery.
TBH, there should be plenty of room in a 15ft canoe for your gear and reasonably sized air bags in the bow and stern. We've trekked two-up over a long weekend in my Apache and on my own I've had gear for a week. Mind, I don't support the concept of 'we've got a canoe to carry the load so take what you want' - I pack small and light; maybe not quite as light as when backpacking, but certainly not heavy.
You keep your gear low for more than one reason - yes, heavy gear high up makes the boat less stable, but anything above the gunwales will catch the wind and make a windy day a misery.
TBH, there should be plenty of room in a 15ft canoe for your gear and reasonably sized air bags in the bow and stern. We've trekked two-up over a long weekend in my Apache and on my own I've had gear for a week. Mind, I don't support the concept of 'we've got a canoe to carry the load so take what you want' - I pack small and light; maybe not quite as light as when backpacking, but certainly not heavy.
Hi Broch
Many thanks for the reply, good to know air bags can vary in size. All the ones I've seen so far have pretty much filled the front and rear of the canoe. Smaller airbags sound the business, I have some experience emptying my kayak when tipped and filled with water and so as long as the canoe isn't lost to the depths I should be fine. Also nice to know the Apache can take enough supply, although I agree whole heartedly with packing light.
Many thanks
LTDansLegs
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