Camo Question

[Kerne]

While sat on a log drinking tea in the woods today I saw a chap clad from head to foot in DPM. In a winter beechwood (russet floor, grey/green trunks, frost on the ground) he stood out like a sore thumb. What do the experts recommend? Different camo for different times of year - fine if you're fighting a war but for those of us who just want to be discreet all year round? I have always favoured olive drab as being a pretty good allrounder, but on the basis of no research whatsoever. Opinions? Looking for some new kit in the January sales and would like to make a wise choice.

 

[Treeclipper]

I must admit my Bergan & some of my pouches are DPM, but most of my clothes are Olive drab, greens, browns & other earth type colours. I always find these blend in at any time of year. I think the only sort of Camo I wear on a regular basis is my Kagool & it's Desert DPM, I'm in the process of saving to replace this with a nice OD Ventile smock.
I have seen some Digital Camo's for different times of year , but Iidn't like them much.

Tree

 

[Mirius]

DPM has always struck me as being designed for night time use, but of course no cam is going to be right for all situations. Greens or brown seem a safe bet to me.

 

[Bernie Garland]

While sat on a log drinking tea in the woods today I saw a chap clad from head to foot in DPM. In a winter beechwood (russet floor, grey/green trunks, frost on the ground) he stood out like a sore thumb. What do the experts recommend? Different camo for different times of year - fine if you're fighting a war but for those of us who just want to be discreet all year round? I have always favoured olive drab as being a pretty good allrounder, but on the basis of no research whatsoever. Opinions? Looking for some new kit in the January sales and would like to make a wise choice.

i use tree bark patterns in the winter months, and get them second hand from ebay usa, just type in hunting clothes,the selection over there is second to none, and as cheap as chips hope it helps.

bernie

 

[nzgunnie]

One word: Multicam.

http://www.multicampattern.com/

Check out the little slide show that runs on the home page.

It looks like it's a bit light, but in anything other than very dark green bush it works superbly. Even at night you just vanish wearing this stuff.

Why the americans went for that awful ACU over this I'll never know.

 

[Surrey Yeoman]

When I was in the mob, I was told that British woodland DPM was actually intended to blend in with the colours of the old West German landscape as that was where it was expected to be used and the colours were geared towards the spring / summer foliage of the region, as that was when the Soviet hordes were expected to come swarming over the border from East Germany!

.............Oh for the peace & quiet of the Cold War era................it's funny, but in hindsight, the World seemed to be a safer place then!

 

[gorilla]

i wear dpm because it hides the dirt, not because it hides me
if i don't want to be seen, i keep still
it's worked up to now!

 

[spamel]

I'm sure the americans have developed a new camouflage that works in all terrain other than arctic. Can't remember what it is called but I can speak to my brother about it, as it was him that told me about it.

 

[Mikey P]

I'm sure the americans have developed a new camouflage that works in all terrain other than arctic. Can't remember what it is called but I can speak to my brother about it, as it was him that told me about it.

Digicam?

Also known as 'too cute to shoot'.

 

[sharp88]

Danish or Dancam as I'v heard some people call it - I would imagin is a good spring colour. The former American camo ain't bad in terms of winter colours, but I myself stick to olive greens n browns as a matter of preference when Im trying not to be seen.

Also remember things could be different if your prone on the ground or in cover with DPM.

But if none of that works, make a ghillie suit if you need the concelment so much.

 

[Dougster]

.............Oh for the peace & quiet of the Cold War era................it's funny, but in hindsight, the World seemed to be a safer place then!

I know exactly what you mean - didn't they make a couple of films of US Genereals perpetuating the cold war?

 

[Ogri the trog]

i wear dpm because it hides the dirt, not because it hides me
if i don't want to be seen, i keep still
it's worked up to now!

That would be my advice as well,
and it is often the small movements that betray the outline of the body. Eye movement will show where the head is and a finger twitch denotes each hand. Hold your self still and only move when your preys vision is diverted elsewhere.
If you don't believe me, try recalling the Rambo film where he is hidden in the mud bank - all you see is the mud until John J. opens his eyes - and immediately the screen becomes filled with his features. Your prey may not be that close but if you give it cause to see a human form - you can bet that they'll take flight.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[nzgunnie]

I'm sure the americans have developed a new camouflage that works in all terrain other than arctic. Can't remember what it is called but I can speak to my brother about it, as it was him that told me about it.

It's called ACU (All purpose Combat Uniform I think, possibly 'Army Combat Uniform'). And they are kidding themselves. I can honestly say it does not work in pine forrests, NZ native rain forrest or grassy farm land.

It is a digital camo (as seems fashionable at present) but at a distance it just appears a lightish grey.

It probably works quite well in an urban setting, and light areas like the desert, but not in the jungle.

The USMC have introduced MARPAT, which is also digital, but comes in two flavours - desert and woodland. These both appear to work quite well.

At the moment my favourite is probably CADPAT that the canadians use, it looks really nice.

 

[greeneggcat]

Hi my tuppence worth.

English Oak seems quite good to me. It appears more green and dark in warmer months, and now things are going lighter, the browns seem to stand out more.

Plus point doesnt look overtly millitaristic.

Magic! (p.s multicam looks ok, will try some when i am allowed the bank cards again)!

 

[Kerne]

Thanks for all the advice/opinion.

Another camo related question:

Most camo is developed for the military and is designed to stop other people seeing you and shooting you. Does any one know whether animals, with their different ways of seeing the spectrum, are fooled by it? I take on board the idea of stillness as paramount but could one sit perfectly still while dressed as Coco the clown?

BTW a quick look at my outdoorsy kit reveals that 70% of it is black. Am I a goth?

 

[John Fenna]

A Paintballing team that was one of the hardest to beat used to dress a la Thunderbirds in bright blue overalls etc - just like "International Rescue", right down to the silly hats.
Thanks to superior fieldcraft and tactics they still whupped most other teams....

 

[JohnC]

http://www.atsko.com/articles/hunting/how-game-animals-see-smell.html#whatareultravioletbrightners

Has some interesting stuff on animal (if thats what you're evading) vision and uv brighteners, although it is a bit of an advert for some product or other..

 

[Spacemonkey]

Really glad this hasn't turned into a cammo bashing thread as it usually would.. I find it a very interesting subject myself.

IMO Flecktarn is one of the best, and really comes into it's own in autumn. I would love to get some clothing the same colour as my dog as he just vanishes in the autumn/winter leaf litter- a kind of rabbity-deery colour. Odd that...

Desert cammo patterns work really well in the yellow grass of open moorlands:

One of my favourite patterns is the late WW2 pattern seen on my '44 SAS smock:

It is great around town as it looks like fashion cammo, but is still windproof and damned tough! Great cammo pattern too...

Swedish is another large block cammo which looks great and not too 'cammo-ey' but better suited to a green environment.

Most of the time though I wear an OG ventile suit. I recently bought some US BDUs in Sherriff Brown but it is quite a dark choccy brown. I'm hoping with washing it will fade to a nice light walnut as this I think is a great colour for autumn woods without looking like a nutter. Not that I really care about that...


Re Multicam. I have a good set of original Crye in the ACU pattern and I think it is ace for mediterranean regions like Spain, but not much cop over in the UK. Recently on my Hungary trip a couple of guys wore it on a night creep and it practically glowed in the dark.. Not impressed.. The rest of us wore DPM and it was perfect in the wet mountain forest. One dude wore Hungarian Para Cammo (which I have a set also) and it is simply THE best woodland autumn/winter cammo there is, and a tough, hardwearing good design too. Sadly, due to joining NATO they have had to ditch it and adopt a more greener pattern to fit NATO colours- something not popular with the old hands..

Hungarian Para cammo on a Hungarian Para on the left:

 

[Pablo]

Not an expert but I’ve been looking at this subject quite closely, especially since returning from a tracking course.

Animals can on the whole, only see two colours, but on the tracking course I learnt that (surprisingly) birds and some insects can see colour. Not blending in may send out alarm calls tipping off the mammals like a ripple effect.

Camo patterns in modern clothing was really designed for keeping humans concealed from humans.

For tracking purposes, earth type colours are better than bright colours (especially blue) as some insects and birds can see in colour and some animals can even see ‘end of spectrum colours’ (ultra-violet) thus possibly warning mammals of something present outside of the baseline.

There isn’t much in nature (if anything) that has a ‘block’ of colour even if it is an earth colour therefore a disruptive pattern can only be better for remaining undetected to wildlife.

Again for wildlife purposes it doesn’t really matter what ‘type’ or ‘style’ of camo you have (if you’re not hiding from people that is) as long as it’s disruptive and it roughly blends into the baseline. But Flektarn is meant to be very good. Extremes e.g. snow camo for woodland might not be suitable. (Flektarn.co.uk is a great site for comparing camo styles by the way.)

There's some other considerations some of which has already been said.

If you’re clattering about doing bushcrafty things, for example hammering, making stuff and cooking, there’s no real reason to wear earth colours because wildlife won’t come near you anyway (unless they take a fancy to your grub.)

Another consideration is that earth colours hide the dirt more effectively. More washing equals more detergent equals more ultra violet and more human made scent. Deer can see ultra violet like a we can see white cloth under an ultra violet light.

A lot of robust (and cheap) kit and clothing (with a few exceptions of course) will come from surplus military sources, so it will be camo, olive green or brown in any case.

For wildlife watching or tracking it’s worth bearing in mind that shiny clothes will attract attention (‘fuzz-up’ by rolling in the dust or mud), so will shape (add foliage or throw over a cam net to break up the outline), smell (de-scent over a fire) and of course movement (er…keep still!)

Carry something bright to wear. You might come across the odd rough shooter or even a poacher. It might look a bit stupid having an orange Thermarest stuff sack on your head, but it saves an @ full of lead shot!

Pablo.

 

[Fin]

It depends what you're trying to conceal yourself against. Animals or Humans? There are certain camouflage criteria that are common to both - for example the first thing that's going to give you away to either is movement.

Colours aren't that important to animals (and to some extent humans) providing the overall pattern is disruptive - hence the orange and black tiger can have pretty bold colouration to human eyes but the overall effect when it is stalking is to break up it's outline (nature doesn't tend to do straight lines or uniform colour).

There was a fashion, not so long ago, in the States for day-glo orange hunting jackets with a disruptive black stripe pattern. The idea behind it was that most quarry animals are more sensitive than us in the ultra violet end of the visible spectrum - but less sensitive the infra red end. In other words, they don't see orange to well. Whereas your hunting buddy who could accidentally mistake your movements for a deer - is going to hold the trigger pull when he sees your unnaturally bright jacket crashing through the cover!

For day to day use - I prefer, not necessarily, to blend in as such - but to be unobtrusive. Somebody on here had a marvelous quote about not being a blot on someone else' landscape by wearing bright clothes. So it tends to be various shades of green for me although my issued arctic smock (DPM) sometimes gets worn when I'm hunting bunnies as I don't care how muddy it gets. The only reason I don't wear DPM on a regular basis is that, being in the mob, it would feel a bit like a busman's holiday.

Modern camouflage hunting clothing - Mossy Oak and the like is also excellent for most british woodland situations and doesn't carry the Army Barmy, Weekend warrior, I can dig a two man slit trench with my teeth type stigma. Although having said that, if I was in the woods and came across someone wearing surplus lightweights (denims) with an arctic smock (or similar), I wouldn't think "Nutter" or "Wannabe" - I would recognise a fellow outdoorsman who knows how to dress for his situation in excellent and relatively cheap gear.