buying woods to wild camp

[Shawng]

hello guys and girls , id like to explain a theory or plan I've been toying with for a few years now.
I like many of you guys love wild camping in woods, down side is you either need to get permission or risk being moved on / danger from possible hunters / game keepers.
I have contemplated purchasing some woods, as I often see them advertised for prices as low as £6k for 1 or 2 acres upwards , there's some currently local at £26k for 3 acres. how great would that be to just go to your own woods and camp out knowing your safe and secure with local resources that can be used to its full advantage.
So what I'm looking for are ideas , on what's the best fundraising sites to use, a lot seem to be raising funds for individuals etc, I want one that's more for raising funds for a project , i.e. purchase woods!
would it be best to do it by selling shares in the woods whereby share holders get to camp free and have a say in the management of the woods with non share holder paying a minimum fee towards the upkeep / maintenance or just a straight forward fundraiser whereby people donate funds and when enough is raised the woods are purchased and are managed by a small group of like minded people ( please feel free to volunteer).
if this is a crap idea please tell me , I wont be offended. or on the other hand you'd be interested in assisting / taking part please get in touch.
I'm in south Lincolnshire so ideally would be looking to purchase within 20 miles of Sleaford but willing to hear alternatives.
I will now run and hide to await comment whether good or bad .
Thanks for your time
i

 

[Broch]

A laudable ambition but, IMO, one fraught with dangers. In any enterprise the equity partners need to be in 100% agreement on the plan otherwise there will be arguments and fall-out. I think it would be very difficult to get a group of strangers to agree exactly on how a woodland should be managed and used. Then there are on-going costs - fencing, pest management, replanting ....

What happens when someone wants to sell their share? or they die and it's passed on to someone else? All these issues can easily be covered in a formal contract/agreement of course but it will need very careful planning and the agreement will need to be drawn up by a competent solicitor to make sure it covers the right stuff.

Having said all that, it can work. There are a number of community projects that operate on a similar basis and can even get grant and lottery funding. But, they do open themselves up to the general public which would not be what you want. See the site below for an example:

dolydd-gobaith: about

dolydd-gobaith/meadows of hope about page.

dolydd-gobaith.cymru

 

[saxonaxe]

Former ( sole) woodland owner here. It would be easy to pour cold water on your idea but Broch has highlighted possible problems which could arise, and while all can be planned and guarded against, it will invariably involve expense.
Selling shares is certainly one approach, although you would need to screen the potential buyers fairly carefully to make absolutely certain their ideas on the use of the woodland sit favourably with your plans.
Future selling or inheritance issues can be ironed out in a legal contract before sale, but no contract will stop personal enmities which could develop and ruin the ideal of a friendly multi owner wood.

I owned a few acres in the middle of 300 acres plus. A look at my Deed Map showed what looked like a huge Council Allotment plan, many roughly rectangular shaped plots, most of under 3 acres formed the whole 300 Acre wood. Division and sale had been made in the late 1950's the vast majority of plots were owned by people who lived far away and never visited the wood, people whose parents had bought the wood when it was hinted that future housing development would mean huge cash earnings. Ha! before the days of SSI's and Rural Planning.

I was stunned when the Solicitor managing the sale of my wood told me that his exhaustive searches had revealed the words 'Subject of Dispute' when he checked items like boundary markings, fencing liabilities and even ownership rights to some pieces of woodland. One dispute had been running since 1963!!

Good luck with your plan, it is possible, just talk to as many owners of woodland as possible before you jump in. Most will gladly talk for ages about their woodland, probably bore you to tears like I have probably just done so...

https://www.swog.org.uk/ Is a worthwhile site to pick up a few tips and tricks.

 

[knowledge=gain]

i have to agree with both @Broch and @saxonaxe

there are myriad of variables

as mentioned check out any potential land for disputes

check land for protected species of flora animals and-such
all parties must agree for the contract by a meeting of minds

leave no trace
preservation of protected species
danger and prevention of forest fires
forest management
regular checks thru the year as well as before and after known-camper(s) on site
move tents after three - five day for allowance for ground to replenish
move hammocks after a set period of time to prevent wear damage to trees
poisonous plants
dangerous animals
allow or not allow cabins or solid structures be built
only use dead wood for fires if fires are allowed
what hunting may or may not be permitted by law and local bylaws
emergency communications

to name just a few off the top of my head

no doubt other member(s) can add to this

 

[slowworm]

I'm not convinced owning a couple of acres would solve your problems of disturbance. If it's part of a larger woodlotted woodland you could have all sorts of close neighbours. Quite a few people also seem to think they can walk through, hunt, steel, dump, camp etc in someone else's woodland so you may still get surprised.

Plenty of reasons to own your own bit of course, I own a couple, but there can be problems.

 

[matthewmac]

I'm not convinced owning a couple of acres would solve your problems of disturbance. If it's part of a larger woodlotted woodland you could have all sorts of close neighbours. Quite a few people also seem to think they can walk through, hunt, steel, dump, camp etc in someone else's woodland so you may still get surprised.

Plenty of reasons to own your own bit of course, I own a couple, but there can be problems.

This is an important point. Managing land can almost be a job in itself. You have to deal with insurance, maintenance, boundaries, potential flytipping, trespassing, even antisocial behaviour and vandalism (many of these depend on location). Not saying this is a bad thing, I enjoy looking after land but it's a very different experience to simply turning up to a wood to camp where you can camp/bushcraft for a 24 hours, leave and never worry about it again. There would need to be someone in charge of this type of maintenance and they would probably need to be paid for the time and work they put in.

I think if you do go ahead with this that strong boundaries (physical fences) are very important if near a populated area. A friend owns a small wood at the edge of a reasonably large village and even with it fenced off he had people last winter jumping the fences to cut down smaller trees for their log burners. With energy prices increasing much more this winter I expect this is going to become an even bigger issue.

I also justify the annual expense of owning land as being worth it because I know the basic yearly costs such as insurance are covered by the land increasing in value over time. The larger one time/less regular expenses such as the fencing I justify by these things increasing the value of the land itself. These expenses might be harder to justify to a group, especially if they can't easily sell.

 

[Laurentius]

A laudable ambition but, IMO, one fraught with dangers. In any enterprise the equity partners need to be in 100% agreement on the plan otherwise there will be arguments and fall-out. I think it would be very difficult to get a group of strangers to agree exactly on how a woodland should be managed and used. Then there are on-going costs - fencing, pest management, replanting ....

What happens when someone wants to sell their share? or they die and it's passed on to someone else? All these issues can easily be covered in a formal contract/agreement of course but it will need very careful planning and the agreement will need to be drawn up by a competent solicitor to make sure it covers the right stuff.

Having said all that, it can work. There are a number of community projects that operate on a similar basis and can even get grant and lottery funding. But, they do open themselves up to the general public which would not be what you want. See the site below for an example:

dolydd-gobaith: about

dolydd-gobaith/meadows of hope about page.

dolydd-gobaith.cymru

It would be like running an allotment association, chaotic but at least we have a set of rules for everyone to argue over. You would definitely need some kind of constitution that was binding.

 

[Laurentius]

I was stunned when the Solicitor managing the sale of my wood told me that his exhaustive searches had revealed the words 'Subject of Dispute' when he checked items like boundary markings, fencing liabilities and even ownership rights to some pieces of woodland. One dispute had been running since 1963!!

Yes just like our allotment association

 

[gra_farmer]

I like the idea, but as many have said, it would not be easy. Owning land out right, is hard work, without having others to please. I own a large area of grassland and some arable farmland, it is really hard work when doing it on a small scale.

If I was you, try to buy on your own, and then rent or charge for use and timber, it doesn't have to be a lot, but that is the best way to do it.

 

[Robson Valley]

I agree with gra_farmer. You have a nightmare of top-down rules and regulations as it is. Adding the concerns and motives of a group is no more than a monster head-ache.
You get to add some layer of do'es and don'ts for invited users. Make them pay with materials to enhance the camp site.
I truly envy your lack of black and grizzly bears.

Hunting campsites here are used more-or-less by tradition = the same people, the same 2 weeks ( or less) every autumn. For the rest of the year, people camping use prepared wilderness campsites and you can make reservations for those.

Decades ago, us 3 families found a flat spot that we raked and shoveled into a decent campsite, over the continental divide in the Arctic watershed. Lots and lots of rock to make a superlative fire pit for cooking, warmth and light. We noticed that other people began to use it but the same 2 weeks, every autumn seemed to be ours. Grouse hunting and trout/grayling fishing. Find the Table River, a tributary of the Parsnip River

 

[Lean'n'mean]

I think such a project could only work if there was an already established group of people who were all more or less on the same page. Trying to assemble a collection of strangers just so there are sufficient funds for the purchase & upkeep, doesn't sound like a good basis for such a venture.
And then there are the locals to think of, if the woodland is in the vicinty of a village, the numerous visits by a multitude of strangers to the said land, with fires, tree felling, possible drunken shindigs & the like, it's liable to make them nervous. And it isn't just because one owns a piece of land that one can do what ever they like on it.
Also, if you would be planning things like selling shares or renting, that would surely involve some kind of business activity, which of course will lead to registration, taxes, authorisations etc. presuming of course that the terms of sale & local by-laws allowed you to do so.
I assume winning the pools, finding a bag with 30 grand in used notes or an imminent inheritance is unprobable, so how about a bank loan & going solo. ?

 

[Decacraft]

It would be a great idea if all parties are on the same page, but as others have already said- issues arise when people move on. Whether that's selling up, passing away etc.

Is it possible for you to do it on your own? Even with a smaller patch?

My biggest worries would be security of the site and fly tipping.

Any road I have found that leads to a woodland, or a quiet space seems to of already been found with someone else's waste unfortunately.

 

[Shawng]

Thanks guys for all the replies, many good points have been bought to the fore, I've just hit 50 so looking for a project for my retirement hence finally looking at the woods project, I agree that the purchase would be better as a sole owner, so will look into funding it that way, may be a couple of years in the making but I will get there.
By the way of the discussion it would be ran more business like although i would also look at a bartering system , whereby people do maintenance for free use .
please add any ideas of what you would like to see in such an operation.
ie hand pump water well, wild camping as well as simple wooden structures that could be used for those traveling extra light.
etc
many thanks guy
shawn

 

[Broch]

I have installed a tree bog (type of composting toilet) and a permanent camp to make sure the whole wood doesn't get trashed. I've also, this time last year, built a shepherds hut so the missus and I can continue using the wood in our dotage.

You may find some ideas and useful information here:

Woodland Custodianship

There are a number of us that are fortunate enough to own or have responsibility for small woodlands, and, I suspect, even more of us that would aspire to. So based on the conversations in other threads I thought it might be useful to start a thread where we can discuss some of the delights...

bushcraftuk.com

 

[swyn]

Having managed woodland that was sold to be divided up into small lots the last thing I wanted to own was a subdivided plot.
I bought a barley field.
Planted lots of trees.
I now have part field and part copse. Actually three small pieces of grassland full of flowers and grasses.
IMO it is a lovely spot full of wildlife. Being in the middle of intensive farming area I am regarded as a bit of a nutter but Knepp has made die hard farmers think a little alternatively. Thank goodness!
S

 

[swyn]

Thanks guys for all the replies, many good points have been bought to the fore, I've just hit 50 so looking for a project for my retirement hence finally looking at the woods project, I agree that the purchase would be better as a sole owner, so will look into funding it that way, may be a couple of years in the making but I will get there.
By the way of the discussion it would be ran more business like although i would also look at a bartering system , whereby people do maintenance for free use .
please add any ideas of what you would like to see in such an operation.
ie hand pump water well, wild camping as well as simple wooden structures that could be used for those traveling extra light.
etc
many thanks guy
shawn

I was 50 when I bought my plot. Go for it now before your body stops you. Time flies when you are having fun! Some is not so fun like a new knee at 60 and the next needing doing now at 63 but my trees are mostly looking good and the cherries sucker which saves some planting and means that they like where they are.
S

 

[Suffolkrafter]

Perhaps instead of shared ownership, you be sole owner and lease permissions? I'm sure there would be equivalent legal hurdles but it would presumably give you more control while helping to cover the costs.

 

[wickerman]

I bought my 3 acres ......part of a large wood .......by getting a personal loan payed back over 4 years ......now the council want to put a road through it

 

[bearbait]

I bought my 3 acres ......part of a large wood .......by getting a personal loan payed back over 4 years ......now the council want to put a road through it

If you feel that there may be species of interest it may be worth you getting your local wildlife trust, or equivalent scientist-sort, to do a high-level survey as there could be stuff in your woodland that's protected (to a greater or lesser degree). If there are at least it may make the council think again.

 

[knowledge=gain]

If I was you, try to buy on your own, and then rent or charge for use and timber, it doesn't have to be a lot, but that is the best way to do it.

or labour for extra pairs of hands to manage the land or other tasks

I bought my 3 acres ......part of a large wood .......by getting a personal loan payed back over 4 years ......now the council want to put a road through it

i can guess your polite answer is thank you but no thank you