Bushcraft too popular?

[stuart f]

Hi folks, after reading MadDaves post http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26456 it has got me thinking. I have this feeling that Bushcraft is becoming to popular for ITs own good,i know this may come across as elitist but thats not my intention. What i,m trying to get at is that Bushcraft can be found very easily through many medias i.e TV,Internet etc,etc, and lots of people in the street know when you say that you practice bushcraft,they say "oh yeah i know what your on about Ray mears,Bear Gyrlls stuff". So my point is, that because it is so readily available for all to see,are people just looking at Bushcraft and thinking "that looks like a hoot i,m gonna have a go" but without really any real thinking about the whole ethos of the practice.

I would like to think that majority of the people who do get into Bushcraft are participating for the right reasons,as i sometimes think that the glamour of the skills outshine the ethos,i mean just looking at Daves photos in his thread you can see that, someone or some group are clearly trying out Bushcraft skills but without the knowledge of leave no trace or are blatantly ignoring that part of the practice.

I know its an education thing and there is a learning curve that comes when you delve deeper into the pratice,as it certainly opens your eyes and makes you aware that the resources we use are not infinite.

So what do you think,is there anything that we as responsible Bushcrafters can do to help those who for whatever reasons either haven't or choose not to use the ethos. Because it will have a knock on effect,as you can see in the other thread that the guy who has the campsite,has already had his judgement of Bushcrafters tainted .

So before anyone shoots me down by thinking that my thoughts are suggesting a close down of ranks among bushcrafters and that the practice is only for those and such as those,then sorry my comments are not meant to be perceived that way,i am just lost for the answer to this situation,yes educating Bushcraft is for the greater good of mankind and the planet but how do we balance the popularity and still get the message through about the ethos.

I think I'll make a start, LEAVE NO TRACE when you are finished practicing your skills whilst out where ever you are.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for reading.

You thoughts are welcome on this situation.

 

[gregorach]

Yeah, I think there's definitely an element of that - kinda like how poker has become a lot more popular in the last few years. Hopefully the bams will get bored when it's no longer "fashionable" and stop leaving their tarp lines, beer cans and faeces all over the place...

What I've noticed is that there's a lot of evidence of people going out and having a bash without the least clue what they're doing, never mind a well-developed sensibility for the environment and a practised LNT ethic. Nobody with any kind of idea of what they're doing cuts their tarp lines, or hacks down and tries to burn a green tree. That is the sort of people who are causing most of the problems (along with the day-trippers of various stripes). How we deal with that, I just don't know. Like I say, hopefully the current fad will pass. The ones who properly get into it will learn - from necessity at first, and hopefully later from a genuine desire to improve their skills. The others will go on to whatever the next big thing is.

I suppose all you can do as an individual is to pick up after people and try to encourage them to do the right thing when you meet them. Although that's a lot easier said than done - I'm not sure how happy I'd be walking into the camp of a group of late-teens, early-twenties guys out to prove their masculinity and telling them to pick up their rubbish. I suppose you can try and look for teaching opportunities, such as "You really don't want to be cutting that tree for firewood - it's still green and it won't burn." You might manage to get though to someone...

 

[Teej84]

Its a tricky subject but I can see where your coming from. It has to be said that the ethos comes from doing it and you find and build a respect for it as you go along. The ethos of bush-crafting is best taught while people are being trained or while they are doing it. An especially good place is round a fire with a good brew!

I have taken groups of youths from inner city areas and taken them on walks in the lakes or to wales and they have been shocked at the beauty of our environment but if I had told them it was beautiful in the city they just wouldn't have felt it unless they had come with me.

Yes there is a problem of the corporate wan*er who may turn up on a bushcraft course having spend god knows how much money on all the new kit and is ramboed up to his teeth but the thing is he's there so he could turn and embrace the ethos and learn the beauty.

The people who I feel sorry for are the people who never get to go, get the chance to learn, see what we see, experience what we embrace. They never had a chance to learn the ethos of bushcraft and for me that worse.

The high profile of bushcraft on mainstream TV, in book shops and in the media it good. It gives people a chance to learn and want to learn more. If it makes a young lad from the 'ghetto' want to join his local scout group rather than throw bricks. If it makes someone want to join the TA rather than sit on his bum. Even if my good friend Mr Corperate Wan*er turns up on a course with everything.

At least we are all there to teach them.

Tom

 

[lottie.lou]

I think its a brilliant thing, the whole reason people damage the countryside and pollute it is because they have no connection to it. Hopefully as more people spend time out there they will develop a connection and start to respect it more.

There will be idiots who trash the countryside regardless, its just now their trashing is in the form of bushcraft rather then just general trashing. I understand that more people will be out their being idiots but I think the benefits of people forming a connection with nature outweighs that.

Maybe we should organise publicised clean ups to raise the profile of good egg Bushcrafters and awareness of the issue to the messy ones.

 

[Matt Weir]

Good topic you raise Stuart and hopefully your thread and Maddave's will be read by people new to the game who have made mistakes and thus become aware about care of site and leave no trace ideals.

 

[Chainsaw]

I think you're dot on with Leave No Trace, nothing else is really as important. Bushcraft is becoming more popular, I've only recently rekindled my interest but even before I discovered BCUK I understood the LNT concept, it should be part of your genetic makeup as a good citizen.

Unfortunately a lot of the people using the outdoors aren't good citizens or (to give them the benefit of the doubt) are not mature enough to be good citizens. Maybe they'll get there!? Ever the optimist! We can only help by educating those we come into contact with although to duncs point educating 'bucky boyz' on LNT may end up with a trip to casualty.

Cheers,

Alan

 

[Mirius]

Yes there is a problem of the corporate wan*er who may turn up on a bushcraft course having spend god knows how much money on all the new kit and is ramboed up to his teeth but the thing is he's there so he could turn and embrace the ethos and learn the beauty.

Hey! I resemble that remark!

 

[spamel]

I get angry whenever i walk into my local woods, dog crap everywhere and the BMX boys leaving heaps of pop bottle and god knows what else, there is a barbeque thrown in a hedge up there! They can be bothered to cart it up there but not to bring it back. It's the same if there was a brick barbie built up there, some mong would smash it back down again for fun. There is no respect and that is why I wish i could live in a pristine wilderness. Living in Britain is bringing me down!

 

[Mikey P]

Yes, it is. Now I was doing it first so the rest of you have to stop, right now. It was much better when there was only four of us bushcrafters around.

In all seriousness, are we not a victims of our own success? By presenting such an interesting and rewarding past-time through excellent websites, such as Tony's, we have popularised bushcraft to the point where most people have heard of it...and probably fancy having a go at it. Obviously them Ray, Hugh and Les blokes, with their fancy la-di-dah TV programmes, haven't helped either...t**sers.

Look at the industry that has grown around bushcrafting: knives at two or three hundred quid (that's a car, that is), equipment, schools and courses, books, DVDs. Type 'bushcraft' or 'Ray Mears' into eBay search....there weren't that many items 6 or 7 years ago, were there? God knows what I've spent on bushcraft-associated kit in the last ten years.

I think we're seeing bushcrafting going the same way as skateboarding did in the late 70s.

But, what do we do? Form a breakaway movement called 'The Real Bushcrafters'...until that gets too popular and the same thing happens again? Do we (the purists?) go underground?

Or, do we accept that you will always get the rough (those mentioned in maddave's post) with the smooth (the general users of this website, for example)? We can try and guide the new guys and develop bushcraft the way we want it to be seen...but who's to say we're not wrong?

Secretly - come on, admit it - most of us would prefer to be left in peace, operating under the radar and enjoying ourselves in smaller numbers, not having to share limited resources with too many other people, wouldn't we...?

 

[andy_e]

TBH, though your point has a lot of merit Stuart, I think there are more people using and abusing the great outdoors than just wannabe bushcrafters (a category I'd have to lump myself in). Where I tend to go, it's mostly fishermen that cause the most damage. I was talking to a friend last night who works in the Loch Lomond area and who has seen people (women in this case, mostly) turn up to walk up Ben Lomond in high heel shoes. Another friend is a keen hillwalker and is moved near to tears by the mess left over the Munroes by idiots. It's the thoughtlessness that I object to. Like Chainsaw and others, I've always aspired to follow the LNT policy, but then from a young age I was instilled with a respect for nature that has endured regardless of the recent trend towards "Bushcraft". In my mind Teej84 has the best approach - educate people, one by one if necessary, remember peer pressure is a powerful thing and it can work to the advantage of all of us who love our outdoors. With respect to the topic and with a nod to lottie, I feel that the increase in popularity of TV shows is a good thing in that the message that is generally given is one of respect and some of that will hopefully sink in eventually.

 

[spamel]

But there used to be campaigns on TV years ago: Keep Britain Tidy and all that. it should be used as a tool to sort out the problems in this country. I'm sure if a factual 30 second film was made about knife crime and how it has affected one persons life, make five or ten of those and show them often enough and it may stop the yoofs stabbing each other. TV is a tool that is not being used to its' full potential.

Also, this stuff needs to be taught in schools. At the rate we are raping and defiling the planet as a species, it won't be long until we are living in a poisoned festering hole with nothing to offer.

 

[andy_e]

Apparently that campaign is still active and has been for the last 50 years ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_Britain_Tidy

... who knew!!!

 

[Cairodel]

Its a tricky subject but I can see where your coming from.
I have taken groups of youths from inner city areas and taken them on walks in the lakes or to wales and they have been shocked at the beauty of our environment but if I had told them it was beautiful in the city they just wouldn't have felt it unless they had come with me.
The people who I feel sorry for are the people who never get to go, get the chance to learn, see what we see, experience what we embrace.
At least we are all there to teach them.

Tom

Just my 2p worth, but I think a lot of the answers (or some, at least) are right there in your
post, Tom.
With all the "Bushmoots" going on around the country , are they publicised other than
on here...?????
If they were known about more widely, and there was an "open welcome", don't you think
this would be one way of helping to alleviate the problem, increase membership here and
generally improve our collective reputation..???

 

[dave k]

I tend to see a lot of half-built (or half-abandoned) shelters in the new forest that people built, and then just leave. It's not really a problem and I don't see it as an issue, but the rangers don't like them..

I did however spot someone who had been practicing bow-drill's in deep cover, by the bow-drills neatly piled against a tree in a quiet spot

 

[stotRE]

I think that it is a good thing that bushcraft is becoming more and more popular.

What better way to teach young people to take responsibility for their own actions and to look after themselves in the big bad world.

Also i feel that in this modern Britain the Aboriginal community are left out when it comes to celebrating our culture,especially in schools.Teach our children about the good things instead of heaping more white guilt into their heads,give them something to be proud of.

Bushcraft isn't just for the upwardly mobile with a disposable income.

Also we seem to ban everything these days after one or two incidents.

Finally why should we dip into our pockets to save the enviroment and then be denied access too it,quick to take our 'green taxes' but not so quick to grant us a right to roam (unlike in Scotland,good job to the Scots i say.)

Rant over......................for now (spleen vented)

 

[Mang]

I'm a wannabe but I still operate within the outdoors etiquette. I know there's a few Scouters on here and personally I always look for an excuse to take about or show the Cubs something about the outdoors, even if it's just to ask what sort of bird is sat on the HQ fence.

Tomorrow I'm talking to them about trees and plants, seeing if they can identify any edible plants at our Hq, asking them what animals and birds can use the Ivy, brambles etc and then we are planting a hedge.

If I can get just one interested long term it's job well done.

 

[EdS]

Bushcraft (god I hate that term) is a good thing. The problems are:
a) a population that has lost touch wit hthe countryside/nature
b) general lack of respect - for various reasons
c) a bit of media hype
d) cheap gear - you don't have to save for month for a tent now, I work all summer to but my Pheonix Phreak
e) easy of getting to somewhere ie most people have access to car.
f) shear population numbers. Even if it is the same 10% of the population "wild" camping as it was 20 years ago the population is larger so more will be doing it.

I spotted a group of youths heading to the woods where I live on Saturday night with cheap tent and a crate of Stella. But by the by the could be getting up to a lot worst.

I remember when I started climbing about 20 years ago the big problem them was people using and abusing bothies.

 

[Dougster]

Also, this stuff needs to be taught in schools. At the rate we are raping and defiling the planet as a species, it won't be long until we are living in a poisoned festering hole with nothing to offer.

That goes on the assumption that they listen Spam - and to be honest the ones who need to listen, don't. Most educating is and should be done by the parents. Schools have more to cram into 7 minute attention spans they we ever did before.

I disagree with this and believe we have to go further, we have to follow the american version of a national park in more remote areas. We are still going on the assumptiont the land is a resource rather than a responsibility.

Grade national parks - heavy, light and very limited access, we all get a go, but those prepared to walk further, volunteer to maintain and carry out their crap get the best bits.

There is no stigma involved in being a to**er any more, if you stigmatise someone for being an idiot they are likely to refrain from doing so - why shouldn't I judge the parent who allows their child to litter my town? CORPORATE RESPONSIBILITY, all for one and all that.

Phew - here endeth rant.

 

[Teej84]

Hey! I resemble that remark!

Perhaps there was a bit of a personal dig in there somewhere (I am skint at the moment!!!)

 

[Wayland]

Ultimately hoping the schools will sort it out is yet another abdication of responsibility.

Every new social ill is thrown at the teachers to sort out along with all the other targets they are expected to achieve.

These days many parents think that education is nothing to do with them because they're not getting paid for it.

Result - children that can't even string a sentence together let alone read and write.

I see a frightening number of them in the course of my work.

If you want to teach the children you have to start with the parents but the parents won't listen because in many cases they are doing just what their parents did.

This is a second or third generation problem and is probably beyond fixing now.

I learned my first "Bushcraft" skills from my father as he had learned from his father before.

Without that continuity of knowledge and ethics, such ground is difficult to recover.

I saw a family camping wild in a spot I know well and when I returned the next morning the site was a disgrace.

There is very little chance of those children developing much more regard for the outdoors than was demonstrated by their parents because they have no effective role model to base themselves upon.