Bushcraft Instructor courses

[John Fenna]

Its a hobby. It has no more importance or cultural relevance than train spotting. The idea that this hobby imbues some mystical connection to the earth is no more true than stamp collecting or bee keeping. Lets stop taking this thing - and ourselves - seriously. This is a faintly ridiculous game somewhere between making a den in the woods and going camping - no more.

For once I have to disagree with you Mr Red.
I do take my Bushcrafting seriously, after all it does form part of my income stream!
I love the outdoors and gave up a very lucrative career (after one year!) in computers to become a full time outdoor skills instructor - and have been poor but happy ever since.
I have mainly worked for charities, where the ethos was "personal development through outdoor experience" and through the Scouting movement, teaching many outdoor skills from rock climbing to navigation, canoeing to ...Bushcraft! Some of the most rewarding groups I have taught Bushcraft skills have been made up of folk recovering from mental illness.
Passing on my knowledge to others has been a lot more fun than sitting in the computer room of a commercial bank and I really do feel that my input has helped make others lives more interesting and fulfilling - which to me is something to take seriously!
I hold a variety of certificates in outdoor instruction but none (no realistic certification exists yet) in Bushcraft but I do carry insurance for teaching Bushcraft skills and passing on some of these skills for others to enjoy is not only fun at the time but also rewarding in many ways - even to a small degree...financially.
Having fun is a serious business

 

[Stringmaker]

If people think bushcraft in the UK has a higher purpose, I'm open to being convinced...I've never heard why it should be considered important though

It comes back to semantics.

I agree that the label "Bushcraft" means different things to different people, but there are some activities that for the sake of a collective reference would fit under that general heading:

Flora and fauna identification
Tracking
Firecraft
Basic green woodworking

Being interested in any or all of these topics doesn't have to make you a bushcrafter; you can just be interested in them for their own sake without the need to label yourself. Where I think there is a case for these interests to be viewed as important is if they are used in a broader context like John mentions.

I have one specific example from my own experience; connected to firecraft. I volunteer with a schools project in a local forest where we use a whole range of historical living skills to engage and educate youngsters, some with appalling home lives. This is not "show and tell", they get very actively involved in everything we do, and many is the time that we have feedback from the teaching staff about almost miraculous changes in behaviour from some kids after working with us.

Are we a bushcraft centre? No.

Am I a bushcraft instructor? No.

Do we use some elements of what bushcraft could be thought of to make a real impact on the lives of some troubled young people? Yes.

That is why I think it is important to me; it is way more than a hobby.

 

[British Red]

Stringmaker / John,

Whilst what you both do is laudable, I suggest that what you do is use are hobby to the benefit of others. I can show you examples of people who do the same with, for example, beekeeping. I suggest though that beekeeping (picking an example I know something about) is probably more important than bushcrafting since bees pollenate. produce a useful foodstuff etc. I do not believe that firecraft or canoeing have the same necessity. I absolutely agree that getting disadvantaged youngsters outdoors (or those with mental illness) and stimulating them, boosting their confidence etc. is incredibly valuable. But I'm not sure that it would make a huge difference if you substituted another activity.

Red

 

[Stringmaker]

Stringmaker / John,

Whilst what you both do is laudable, I suggest that what you do is use are hobby to the benefit of others. I can show you examples of people who do the same with, for example, beekeeping. I suggest though that beekeeping (picking an example I know something about) is probably more important than bushcrafting since bees pollenate. produce a useful foodstuff etc. I do not believe that firecraft or canoeing have the same necessity. I absolutely agree that getting disadvantaged youngsters outdoors (or those with mental illness) and stimulating them, boosting their confidence etc. is incredibly valuable. But I'm not sure that it would make a huge difference if you substituted another activity.

Red

I think that was what I was trying to suggest; certainly in my case in that I take elements of "Bushcraft" and apply them in a specific context.

You're absolutely right in that in the relative hierarchy; bees are more important than lighting fires by friction but without the means of making smoke beekeepers would get stung a lot more

 

[John Fenna]

Stringmaker / John,

Whilst what you both do is laudable, I suggest that what you do is use are hobby to the benefit of others. I can show you examples of people who do the same with, for example, beekeeping. I suggest though that beekeeping (picking an example I know something about) is probably more important than bushcrafting since bees pollenate. produce a useful foodstuff etc. I do not believe that firecraft or canoeing have the same necessity. I absolutely agree that getting disadvantaged youngsters outdoors (or those with mental illness) and stimulating them, boosting their confidence etc. is incredibly valuable. But I'm not sure that it would make a huge difference if you substituted another activity.

Red

A fair point - the other activities could well have an equal effect on the outcomes - but may prove harder to get the target group(s) "engaged".
Therefor I will still take my Bushcrafting seriously - seriously good fun - and as a tool to keep me and others sane, productive elements of society.
All work and no play makes Jack a tired, miserable, sociopath

 

[British Red]

Don't misunderstand me John, I'm not saying that having an interest in "outdoor pursuits" isn't a good thing - nor that I am unimpressed with what you do. I do maintain that "Bushcraft" has no innate worthiness (beyond any other hobby) though. People have had great results engaging people in horse riding as an example and sailing as another. Doing something positive and having fun will always be worthwhile of course, but I do laugh when people crack on as though Bushcraft is some higher calling. I recall Ray Mears once saying "its important that we preserve these skills". I waited with baited breath for him to say why it was important - but he never did

 

[Paganwolf]

Just to clerify, by "absurdity of bushcraft qualifications" I didn't have in mind things like first aid training, proper facilities, building permits etc. That is just part of what each school has to have in order to responsibly have people on the premises. I personally don't care at all if the bushcraft instructor has any first aid training. I am fine with there being a physician at the school who does not teach but takes care of medical emergencies.

I don't understand why we need a certifying body to determine who is qualified to teach buschraft. Why can't independent credentials stand on their own? Why can't someone circumnavigating Alaska on foot, or living in the Amazon jungle alone for three years, or anything of the sort stand on its own? Why do I need a group of self-appointed "experts" determining if this is "valid" bushcraft?

In my experience, most buschraft instructors are a big joke. Most are allegedly certified in some way (i.e. took a class in how to make a fire with a bow drill and made a lean to next to the parking lot over the weekend). They have no actual experience in the wilderness, and simply regurgitate the information and tricks seen on Ray Mears DVDs, and spend a lot of time trying to have "the right look". They then proceed to teach things that while popular on forums, and look outdoorsy, are of no use to the person actually making his way through the wilderness.

Disagree with my assessment? That's my point! there is no way we will agree on what should give someone a certification as a bushcraft instructor. What is "proper buschraft" to one person is a joke, or improper technique to another.

This whole bushcraft certification business seems to be a UK phenomenon. I see all these Level 1, Level 2, Level whatever certifications and classes, and when I read the descriptions, it blows my mind that someone can be considered an instructor after simply taking the class.

For me bushcraft is something that requires actual time on the ground, and by that I mean the actual wilderness, not on the campgrounds. I also think that we each need to do our research when selecting an instructor, and not rely on someone else with questionable experience to tell us who should be teaching us. On top of that, what each of us considers buchcraft is very different and as a result what would be a qualified instructor for one of us, would be inadequate for the other. For example, someone spending a year living in a hot tent in Sweden might be a very qualified instructor for how one person wants to practice bushcraft, and how they envision the activity, while for me, that person would be completely unqualified to teach the way in which I practice bushcraft.

I don't think there is a way around doing our research. For me someone being certified by someone else has as much value as someone being an expert because they are on TV. It means exactly nothing. Not only do I have zero faith in a buschraft certifying body, but I believe it will be harmful in that it will restrict innovation and serve to impose a dominant view on what "bushcraft" is, and what a bushcraft instructor should know and teach. That is for me to decide, not for some other bushcraft "expert".

Thats beautiful, im getting emotional "sniff sniff"

I couldnt have put that better my self!!!

A certificate to be a "bushcraft instructor" isnt worth the paper its written on. Years of experience an eclectic skill set and a good reputation amongst other things does.

 

[Paganwolf]

Great vids btw rg598

 

[Toddy]

I think this is actually two things.

Seriously, it is.

One, the majority of those who actively engage with what is considered bushcraft, in all it's assorted airts and manifestations really don't seem to see the need for certification.

But secondly, those who employ people to teach bushcraft are often not aware of the background and expect their 'experts' to come with paper qualifications.

There's the rub, especially if you're someone trying to break into the whole make a living out of it career choice.

Reputation is tacitly understood among us, and among those we have worked with since before the Forest Schools appeared on the scene; but for new employers we end up having to do a whole network of recommendations trying to find people that these particular newbies actually know before they start giving out contracts and £££'s. It's a pain in the situpon, tbh.

In some ways I think that's the reason for the surge in new schools; if you have a 'professional' set up, a site with some history and testimonials, etc., that seems to act as a kind of validation for experience, reputation and as a reference, for those who don't have bit of paper.

My tuppence ha'penny worth. I don't like the creeping certification, I think it's an incredibly limiting move, but I can see why it has an appeal to some.

cheers,
M

 

[ozzy1977]

But with out a governing body all so called qualifications are meaning less, as they are all so varied, What's to stop me setting up my own school, making up a qualification sticking it on the website and touting for trade?

 

[Stringmaker]

But with out a governing body all so called qualifications are meaning less, as they are all so varied, What's to stop me setting up my own school, making up a qualification sticking it on the website and touting for trade?

Nothing at all.

In theory, if you attract punters and deliver what they want then you could carry on quite happily. You then get the collection of testimonials and references which would help future potential customers choose you.

However, knowing how our litigous society works one very real future scenario is that without a bit of paper from someone you don't get liability insurance if you want to take money off people.

 

[John Fenna]

Don't misunderstand me John, I'm not saying that having an interest in "outdoor pursuits" isn't a good thing - nor that I am unimpressed with what you do. I do maintain that "Bushcraft" has no innate worthiness (beyond any other hobby) though. People have had great results engaging people in horse riding as an example and sailing as another. Doing something positive and having fun will always be worthwhile of course, but I do laugh when people crack on as though Bushcraft is some higher calling. I recall Ray Mears once saying "its important that we preserve these skills". I waited with baited breath for him to say why it was important - but he never did

Different ways of taking things seriously

 

[Uilleachan]

For me it's a term, not a hobby, a handy catch-all that describes some of the tricks I deploy when I'm out and about. I'm thankful for the catch-all term as it brings a diverse group together, many of whom are able to pass on and share their tricks with other like minded individuals.

Instructors; my only ever instructor was my Scout leader, Bob and his assistant, Graham. I've had a few mentors though, especially when I was getting into climbing. So the concept is ridiculous to my mind, I think one has to get out there and do it and learn, perhaps with a mentor if you're new to the outdoors.

The old adage; those who can, do, those that can't do, teach, those who can't teach, teach teachers.

That said, if one wants to make a business out of it (and one has to ask the question; WHY ????) in the EU one has legal responsibilities;

Commercially organised activities should be/have;

Insured
Employee disclosures for working with youths or the vulnerable
Have employees competent for their intended roll, and be able to demonstrate that competence
Risk assessment (if more than 4 or 5 employees or if the activity has associated hazards over and above the pedestrian, so playing with axes sleeping outdoors knives open fire uneven surfaces the list is quite exhaustive)
Have a safe method of work and delivery documented (procedures and perhaps lesson plans)
Have emergency procedures and plans in place
Equipment used must be controlled, if it's safety critical or able to cause injury (controlled could mean; "under instruction" or regularly checked/inspected; life jackets boats structures etc)
Personal protective equipment issued, should include instructions for use and relevant training, both should be provided to employees and clients, where appropriate.
Etc etc.......

So I could see where the need for a piece of paper comes from but a piece of paper in it's self doesn't prove competence, to that an employer must show "relevant" experience thats been verified (e.g.; a cross checked CV and perhaps trade test plus detail on, how and what method of assessment has been applied?) Company induction, system of mentoring and shadowing staff prior to being let loose with punters, a continued professional development plan, also there should be some kind of managerial employee competence review mechanism.

Of course the piece of paper is all you'll need until someone gets hurt/killed/kills someone else, sues etc, then you'll want all of the above. In the case of a fatality one will still be fined as a minimum, but those with all of the above who can demonstrate the company business was controlled will be fined a percentage of profit, those that can't will be heavily fined or even jailed in cases where they were deemed incompetent and or have no seizable assets.

Me, I'll stick to my own company and the company of pals working on the same misadventure understanding as myself, thanks

 

[John Fenna]

But with out a governing body all so called qualifications are meaning less, as they are all so varied, What's to stop me setting up my own school, making up a qualification sticking it on the website and touting for trade?

I have certificates from a "Survival School" that did just that. They are very pretty.

 

[Toddy]

See that list ? I have to do all of that just to teach natural dyeing
Honestly, I do. I have to have proof that I carry £5 million Public Liability insurance, just to demonstrate.

It's beyond a joke some days, it really is.

Personally, I agree with you, but the bare minimum is now the PVG scheme with Disclosure Scotland, good, clear, and applicable, Risk Assessments, and Public Liability insurance.

Teaching bushcraft is worse; especially when it involves tool use with anyone 'untrained'.....I thought at the time I was asked about it, "Just how does one get any 'training', by doing courses like this, except through experience ?". In the end we taught about 200 kids over the Summer , but that was a particularly open minded and practical, provider organisation.

My beef with the certification blitz is that it's very limited in it's remit, it 'tailor's' bushcraft, that it is inherantly biased against experience in favour of a paper 'qualification'.....that is again limited
We, those of us who do it, can't find a concensus of the limits of bushcraft, how the hang can anyone else ? especially some one or some organisation, who claim large fees, and are thus already biased accordingly, define it ?

Ach, I'm away to put the kettle on. Supposedly we're due storms here tomorrow

atb,
Mary

 

[Macaroon]

I haven't posted since very early on in this thread, but I've followed it with great interest; I agree with both Ross and BR to a great extent and have been waiting for the inevitable to come into the debate..................

MONETISEATION! As far as I can see that's the only reason for certification; in my experience it's also the thin end of a very destructive wedge and will destroy what is now a very broad church, and an unregulated one. I can only repeat my earlier comment:

Be very careful what you wish for!

 

[Uilleachan]

See that list ? I have to do all of that just to teach natural dyeing
Honestly, I do. I have to have proof that I carry £5 million Public Liability insurance, just to demonstrate.

It's beyond a joke some days, it really is.

Personally, I agree with you, but the bare minimum is now the PVG scheme with Disclosure Scotland, good, clear, and applicable, Risk Assessments, and Public Liability insurance.

Teaching bushcraft is worse; especially when it involves tool use with anyone 'untrained'.....I thought at the time I was asked about it, "Just how does one get any 'training', by doing courses like this, except through experience ?". In the end we taught about 200 kids over the Summer , but that was a particularly open minded and practical, provider organisation.

My beef with the certification blitz is that it's very limited in it's remit, it 'tailor's' bushcraft, that it is inherantly biased against experience in favour of a paper 'qualification'.....that is again limited
We, those of us who do it, can't find a concensus of the limits of bushcraft, how the hang can anyone else ? especially some one or some organisation, who claim large fees, and are thus already biased accordingly, define it ?

Ach, I'm away to put the kettle on. Supposedly we're due storms here tomorrow

atb,
Mary

I hear you Toddy. I've done all that running companies-businesses business, now I just audit them, you know; point out the failings agree a corrective action schedule, go home light the fire put the feet up and worry about other things, my curly cale and important stressful stuff like that.

And yes, the blinkin blonlkin weather! I'm off to Donegal tomorrow (to test some trainees and issue certificates of competence ) looks like I'm going to be doing my SAS-winter-driving-selection en route to Glasgow airport, I'll take a flask and a good book

 

[Tracker NTS-054]

IMHO, To call yourself a bushcraft instructor is analogous to calling yourself something ridiculous such as a cycling instructor or relationship instructor. These things, like bushcraft, belong to no corporation or company and shouldn't be sold as a service, personally it is something passed down through generations and perfected over a lifetime.
Just my two penn'orf..

 

[Bluffer]

Like driving?

 

[Macaroon]

Bad analogy, the driving thing; there's no comparison.