Bushcraft Instructor courses

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rg598

Native
Maybe it's because I come from a different area of the world, but I find the notion of a bushcraft certification body absurd.

In my opinion, the only thing that gives anyone any qualifications is time spent in the actual woods. More importantly, how they spent their time in the woods will determine whether someone is the right instructor for me.

There are way too many inatructors with all sorts of certifications, who have never set foot in an actual wilderness (a place where there is no actual bathroom facility within walking distance). Their certificates mean absolutely nothing to me.

On top of that, I believe a certifying body like that will do nothing more than restrict knowledge and allow a few dominant views to monopolize what "bushcraft" is, and what is considered proper; a notion which should be abhorrent to most woodsmen.

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Stringmaker

Native
Sep 6, 2010
1,891
1
UK
It is all relative.

In the UK at least, if you are trying to get funding or attract paying clients of any sort then you'd better make sure you have some kind of evidence that:

A) You are competent in the specific field/activity

B) You are insured

B) is easy, demonstrating A) is relative to the competency of the person doing the judging. Ross may dismiss someone that another less experienced person would be impressed by.

Ultimately it comes down to trust initially and then physical evidence through observation. The piece of paper helps to establish that initial trust; no more.
 

shaggystu

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2003
4,345
33
Derbyshire
For me its being able to pick up tips from chaps that have been learning for a lot longer than myself, I cant afford courses, I aim to start at the very bottom, cleaning up and general camp chores(Oooo Hello sailor!) I don't want a school of my own, I don't envisage being a guru, just courses by the back door, my time and effort in return for experience in teaching the subject, and learning as I go, I am hoping to become an entry level assistant, I am learning the skills to pass on to my kids, I have no feeling on the ncfe certification other than I cannot afford it so wont be getting it.

You and me both brother, not going too badly for us so far :)
 

Macaroon

A bemused & bewildered
Jan 5, 2013
7,211
364
73
SE Wales
What Ross says above has it right................"Bushcraft Certification"?..........Definitely absurd! Just get out there and do it, if you're not doing it well you won't go very often; if you're doing it well enough to keep yourself and those around you safe and well and reasonably comfortable, you're qualified enough and will go out more and more.

Governing Bodies? No thank you very much! It's been my escape from all that old tosh!

Be very careful what you wish for!
 
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SJStuart

Settler
Jan 22, 2013
997
2
Suffolk Coast
Maybe it's because I come from a different area of the world, but I find the notion of a bushcraft certification body absurd.

In my opinion, the only thing that gives anyone any qualifications is time spent in the actual woods. More importantly, how they spent their time in the woods will determine whether someone is the right instructor for me.

There are way too many inatructors with all sorts of certifications, who have never set foot in an actual wilderness (a place where there is no actual bathroom facility within walking distance). Their certificates mean absolutely nothing to me.

On top of that, I believe a certifying body like that will do nothing more than restrict knowledge and allow a few dominant views to monopolize what "bushcraft" is, and what is considered proper; a notion which should be abhorrent to most woodsmen.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Couldn't agree more!
 

Clouston98

Woodsman & Beekeeper
Aug 19, 2013
4,364
2
26
Cumbria
Maybe it's because I come from a different area of the world, but I find the notion of a bushcraft certification body absurd.

In my opinion, the only thing that gives anyone any qualifications is time spent in the actual woods. More importantly, how they spent their time in the woods will determine whether someone is the right instructor for me.

There are way too many inatructors with all sorts of certifications, who have never set foot in an actual wilderness (a place where there is no actual bathroom facility within walking distance). Their certificates mean absolutely nothing to me.

On top of that, I believe a certifying body like that will do nothing more than restrict knowledge and allow a few dominant views to monopolize what "bushcraft" is, and what is considered proper; a notion which should be abhorrent to most woodsmen.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


I agree with what you are saying :).

But I think the city folk who go on courses for stag do's etc, are probably the ones who look at certificates and so on rather than proper outdoorsy bushcrafters like on here :).
 

Limaed

Full Member
Apr 11, 2006
1,293
70
48
Perth
I wouldn't write off all qualifications relating to becoming a Bushcraft Instructor. If you notice many instructors (including some that are very well respected) have qualifications like the ML Summer, Emergency Medical Technician & basic food hygiene. Having this training & experience is in IMHO essential if you intend to look after groups in the outdoors and have an appropriate Duty of Care.

Some of the tickets are quite hard work to get, for example to achieve a ML Summer you are looking at at least a years worth of regular hill walking in all conditions. Some of the Bushcraft qualifications run on a similar format where the course is taken part time so the students have time to consolidate the skills & gain experience.

Without some sort of CV of your prospective instructor (in which could include some appropriate qualifications) it's difficult to judge whether they have any real experience. From my work on MR I've quite often being involved in searches for missing people 'who were experienced' but were actually anything but. At least a qualification shows that the prospective instructor has received some formal training and assessment in the relevant skills.
 

rg598

Native
I wouldn't write off all qualifications relating to becoming a Bushcraft Instructor. If you notice many instructors (including some that are very well respected) have qualifications like the ML Summer, Emergency Medical Technician & basic food hygiene. Having this training & experience is in IMHO essential if you intend to look after groups in the outdoors and have an appropriate Duty of Care.

Some of the tickets are quite hard work to get, for example to achieve a ML Summer you are looking at at least a years worth of regular hill walking in all conditions. Some of the Bushcraft qualifications run on a similar format where the course is taken part time so the students have time to consolidate the skills & gain experience.

Without some sort of CV of your prospective instructor (in which could include some appropriate qualifications) it's difficult to judge whether they have any real experience. From my work on MR I've quite often being involved in searches for missing people 'who were experienced' but were actually anything but. At least a qualification shows that the prospective instructor has received some formal training and assessment in the relevant skills.

Just to clerify, by "absurdity of bushcraft qualifications" I didn't have in mind things like first aid training, proper facilities, building permits etc. That is just part of what each school has to have in order to responsibly have people on the premises. I personally don't care at all if the bushcraft instructor has any first aid training. I am fine with there being a physician at the school who does not teach but takes care of medical emergencies.

I don't understand why we need a certifying body to determine who is qualified to teach buschraft. Why can't independent credentials stand on their own? Why can't someone circumnavigating Alaska on foot, or living in the Amazon jungle alone for three years, or anything of the sort stand on its own? Why do I need a group of self-appointed "experts" determining if this is "valid" bushcraft?

In my experience, most buschraft instructors are a big joke. Most are allegedly certified in some way (i.e. took a class in how to make a fire with a bow drill and made a lean to next to the parking lot over the weekend). They have no actual experience in the wilderness, and simply regurgitate the information and tricks seen on Ray Mears DVDs, and spend a lot of time trying to have "the right look". They then proceed to teach things that while popular on forums, and look outdoorsy, are of no use to the person actually making his way through the wilderness.

Disagree with my assessment? That's my point! there is no way we will agree on what should give someone a certification as a bushcraft instructor. What is "proper buschraft" to one person is a joke, or improper technique to another.

This whole bushcraft certification business seems to be a UK phenomenon. I see all these Level 1, Level 2, Level whatever certifications and classes, and when I read the descriptions, it blows my mind that someone can be considered an instructor after simply taking the class.

For me bushcraft is something that requires actual time on the ground, and by that I mean the actual wilderness, not on the campgrounds. I also think that we each need to do our research when selecting an instructor, and not rely on someone else with questionable experience to tell us who should be teaching us. On top of that, what each of us considers buchcraft is very different and as a result what would be a qualified instructor for one of us, would be inadequate for the other. For example, someone spending a year living in a hot tent in Sweden might be a very qualified instructor for how one person wants to practice bushcraft, and how they envision the activity, while for me, that person would be completely unqualified to teach the way in which I practice bushcraft.

I don't think there is a way around doing our research. For me someone being certified by someone else has as much value as someone being an expert because they are on TV. It means exactly nothing. Not only do I have zero faith in a buschraft certifying body, but I believe it will be harmful in that it will restrict innovation and serve to impose a dominant view on what "bushcraft" is, and what a bushcraft instructor should know and teach. That is for me to decide, not for some other bushcraft "expert".
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,718
1,964
Mercia
I don't understand why we need a certifying body to determine who is qualified to teach buschraft. Why can't independent credentials stand on their own? Why can't someone circumnavigating Alaska on foot, or living in the Amazon jungle alone for three years, or anything of the sort stand on its own? Why do I need a group of self-appointed "experts" determining if this is "valid" bushcraft?

.

With you 100% there - the reason of course is the "can't think for myself - I need my life run by the government" brigade. It does amaze me the number of people who feel they need to "define" what bushcraft is (and isn't), to make snarky comments about those who don't follow the "one true way" and usually who seek to ban things that aren't in their personal definition, whilst at the same time expecting to be able to use other peoples land for what they fancy doing (but heaven help anyone who wants to do something different).

The idea of really being tough and independent doesn't enter into it
 

rg598

Native
With you 100% there - the reason of course is the "can't think for myself - I need my life run by the government" brigade. It does amaze me the number of people who feel they need to "define" what bushcraft is (and isn't), to make snarky comments about those who don't follow the "one true way" and usually who seek to ban things that aren't in their personal definition, whilst at the same time expecting to be able to use other peoples land for what they fancy doing (but heaven help anyone who wants to do something different).

The idea of really being tough and independent doesn't enter into it

You are right. I find that mentality particularly strange considering the nature of the activity we practice. All of the woodsmen we look up to as part of learning bushcraft are people who shunned definitions, notions of propriety, government supervision, and certainly abhorred certifying bodies or any notion of "the right way" to do things.
 

udamiano

On a new journey
Is there a governing body? if not then how can a certificate be any use

No, there is no governing body, and courses done by one school may not be recognised by another. NCFC even though they are a recognised award agency, are no more valid than any other qualification out there, as they are not universally recognised by the bushcraft schools, or sector. So be a bit careful whom you are choosing, a don't be surprised if your qualification is not accepted by the school you apply to. Having said this, any training is better than no training at all, and combine this with experience learned doing the job, can be seen a desirable set of skills in your quest to be an instructor.
I would however suggest that a basic teaching qualification would be of major benefit
 
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rg598

Native
If someone is looking at courses, do you think they may prefer a course provider who has been externally validated?

I have no idea what people may prefer. We are each free to trust whoever and whatever we want. As for me, an "external validation" does not mean anything. There are many experts whose external validation of a course would guarantee that I never take that course. I would have to do the same amount of research on the credentials of the accrediting body as I would have done for the course itself.

I bet you that if right now we tried to create a list of who should be on this accrediting/validating body, we would not be able to agree. Just look at the "survival expert ranking post": http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114787
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,718
1,964
Mercia
I bet you that if right now we tried to create a list of who should be on this accrediting/validating body, we would not be able to agree.

I am 100% certain that people couldn't agree what "bushcraft" is - or what activities it should contain. Is bow hunting part of bushcraft? Is spoon carving mandated? Are you a Bushcrafter if you cannot recognise species of trees? If you have no desire to go to icy or desert climes are you "out"? If you haven't the remotest interest in flint knapping axes but can fashion a flint for your flintlock...is that okay?

Many people on this forum seem to want to impose their views of the hobby on others. Do what you enjoy. Its a hobby. It has no more importance or cultural relevance than train spotting. The idea that this hobby imbues some mystical connection to the earth is no more true than stamp collecting or bee keeping. Lets stop taking this thing - and ourselves - seriously. This is a faintly ridiculous game somewhere between making a den in the woods and going camping - no more.
 

Tracker NTS-054

Forager
Sep 8, 2013
172
0
Nottinghamshire
I am 100% certain that people couldn't agree what "bushcraft" is - or what activities it should contain. Is bow hunting part of bushcraft? Is spoon carving mandated? Are you a Bushcrafter if you cannot recognise species of trees? If you have no desire to go to icy or desert climes are you "out"? If you haven't the remotest interest in flint knapping axes but can fashion a flint for your flintlock...is that okay?

Many people on this forum seem to want to impose their views of the hobby on others. Do what you enjoy. Its a hobby. It has no more importance or cultural relevance than train spotting. The idea that this hobby imbues some mystical connection to the earth is no more true than stamp collecting or bee keeping. Lets stop taking this thing - and ourselves - seriously. This is a faintly ridiculous game somewhere between making a den in the woods and going camping - no more.

Ironically, whilst I find your spiel very well argued, are you not trying now to impose your own view of bushcraft on others? Interesting thread.. (And I'm not trying to start any debates, just thought it was an interesting comment)
All the best, Lewis
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,718
1,964
Mercia
Bob on Lewis - if you are enjoying yourself and annoying no-one, its all good :)

If people think bushcraft in the UK has a higher purpose, I'm open to being convinced...I've never heard why it should be considered important though :)
 

shaggystu

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2003
4,345
33
Derbyshire
I am 100% certain that people couldn't agree what "bushcraft" is - or what activities it should contain. Is bow hunting part of bushcraft? Is spoon carving mandated? Are you a Bushcrafter if you cannot recognise species of trees? If you have no desire to go to icy or desert climes are you "out"? If you haven't the remotest interest in flint knapping axes but can fashion a flint for your flintlock...is that okay?

Many people on this forum seem to want to impose their views of the hobby on others. Do what you enjoy. Its a hobby. It has no more importance or cultural relevance than train spotting. The idea that this hobby imbues some mystical connection to the earth is no more true than stamp collecting or bee keeping. Lets stop taking this thing - and ourselves - seriously. This is a faintly ridiculous game somewhere between making a den in the woods and going camping - no more.

Well said that man.
 

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