Bushcraft courses or not?

[Hoodoo]

This is one of the best discussions I've seen on BCUK. Personally, I'm one of the "go it alone" types simply because I feel comfortable with it. Bushcraft to me is only a hobby that I practice occasionally. But getting into the woods is what it's all about for me and I go whenever opportunity knocks. But I also know that going it alone is not for everyone.

I can't imagine that attending a school would be a negative experience unless you hook up with some yoyo(s). Therefore, I think if you have the opportunity and can afford it, I would go for it. It's an "experience" that you wouldn't have had otherwise. Obviously the quality of the experience will depend to a large degree on group dynamics (the kind of people) and the ability of your instructor(s) to teach. Therefore, there's bound to be some variability in your enjoyment.

So, if all you want to do is learn "skills," depending on your self-motivation and innate talent, you could go far on your own. I would especially recommend videos because there are some things that are difficult to learn from drawings, pictures, or the written word. But having a teacher is almost always the quickest way to learn something. But even a teacher is no substitute for doing. The best way to learn is to do it. Do it in your basement, in your garage, in your backyard, in the bush. Do it year round. Take courses if you can afford it. Hang out here. Whatever. It's all about learning and I always figure if I learn one or two new things by doing something, it's worth it.

 

[stuart f]

Whitebuffalo when i used the word "advanced", i was using the same term as i had read on some schools info. about courses.That was infact going to be my next question,what is classed as advanced in bushcraft?

Thanks to you all for your comments.

The reason for my question was because i was wondering as bushcraft becomes more popular and the numbers increase(assuming that bushcraft is in its infancy)will there come a time when bushcraft clubs will arise, and offer members either a merit badge or even grades for skills gained under supervision of an instructor.An example i,m trying to compare with in my head anyway, is Karate. Originally when you started the art you were given a white belt that you used throughtout your life(i,m talking 100s of years ago) but somewhere along the line someone changed that to giving out coloured belts when you attained a certain level then you moved on to try and get the next belt,but just because you got that belt within the club it does,nt necessarily mean you are now ready for the mean streets.

I hope that makes sense but if it does,nt i,m sure you,ll let me know.

I think as has been mentioned the bottom line is practice makes perfect.

sorry if i bored you all now.

 

[TheViking]

The reason for my question was because i was wondering as bushcraft becomes more popular and the numbers increase(assuming that bushcraft is in its infancy)will there come a time when bushcraft clubs will arise, and offer members either a merit badge or even grades for skills gained under supervision of an instructor.An example i,m trying to compare with in my head anyway, is Karate. Originally when you started the art you were given a white belt that you used throughtout your life(i,m talking 100s of years ago) but somewhere along the line someone changed that to giving out coloured belts when you attained a certain level then you moved on to try and get the next belt,but just because you got that belt within the club it does,nt necessarily mean you are now ready for the mean streets.

Personally I don't think it's a good idea with dividing members of a club into grades and levels, of how good they are. As a matter of fact, i don't think someone is better than another, but perhaps more experienced. And there's a difference.

And club instructors can't know what you're doing at home. So perhaps you're changing to higher "levels" at home, and you wouldn't get a grade for that. :?:

Just a thought.

 

[bombadil]

I agree with you, Hoodoo, what a gr8 thread :biggthump ....
I like the idea of courses, but they're always so damned expensive, and it excludes those unfortunate folk who might not have the opportunity or money to do them, quite often the people who may benefit the most from learning bushcraft skills and self-reliance....(I'm thinking of the poor buggers who have to spend thier lives on grubby estates in Merseyside or Middlesborough) :shock:
I'm as yet mostly self-taught, save for a few things I picked up from more enlightened people, as is always the case with these things, and I would like to be able to set up some way of passing knowledge onto others who can't afford the astronomical amounts that some unnamed personalities are asking. I think there are many things you can learn on your own, but inevitably there comes a point where a bit of guidance from somone else can be invaluable, and if your not lucky enough to know someone with a bit more knowledge, and yer skint, what then?? :?:

 

[bombadil]

Absolutely!! :You_Rock_
Trust a 15 year old to say it like it is :rolmao:
I used to live in Denmark, it's very flat, but I had a fantastic time wandering around some nice little places on Zealand, and learnt how to bake great bread !!

Personally I don't think it's a good idea with dividing members of a club into grades and levels, of how good they are. As a matter of fact, i don't think someone is better than another, but perhaps more experienced. And there's a difference.

And club instructors can't know what you're doing at home. So perhaps you're changing to higher "levels" at home, and you wouldn't get a grade for that. :?:

Just a thought.

 

[TheViking]

Absolutely!! :You_Rock_
Trust a 15 year old to say it like it is :rolmao:

It's pure honesty. I say everything as it is.
Yeah, Denmark is flat. :roll: Highest hill is just under 200 m. :shock:

 

[Gary]

Very good points little viking.

A club couldn't grade people in a manor similar to Karate for example purely because it wouldn't be feasible for a biweekly meet up and the subject is literally too vaste.

At best a club might, in theory, have a basic level attainable by all which would be badged so new members would know where to go when seeking advice ect.

Having said that a good club, once established, would surely have a wealth of skilled people who, like an extended family, would be encourage to help and nurture all the clubs members to rise to the highest level they wish to achieve.

Personally speaking I would only be part of such a club if it was set up to embrace all its members no matter what level they were at - like members of a tribe or a small hunter gatherer group where all members are equally treasured and valued for their individual skills as well as for their contribution to the whole. In such a society only the self individual would be worthless and as such abandoned as a waste of rations.

 

[jamesdevine]

A club or regular gathering of like minded folk would be a great idea and something I have considered setting up here purely as a away to find out if there is anyone else in this country that finds the whole subject of Bushcraft as life enriching and inspiring as I do. This is partly why I am still involved in Scouting it is my regular access to the places I love and sometimes allows me to explore with like minded folk some of the more interesting parts of bushcraft. But this is still within the confounds of scouting(ware a sheath knife at a scout camp and you are likely to get arrested) .

So a regular gathering of like minded souls once or twice a month over a weekend if possible and maybe an annual trip to a course or to experience bushcraft in a Jungle or desert or Boreal Forest for example with the aim of learning and expanding your knowledge so you can bring it home and openly and for free pass it on would be to quote Bill & Ted EXCELLENT :super:

I also believe grading is not as importing as the free flow of the knowledge itself hence the importants of places like BCUK.

I do like this thread it makes you think.

James

 

[tenbears10]

But this is still within the confounds of scouting(ware a sheath knife at a scout camp and you are likely to get arrested) .

James

Is this true James? :yikes: I was a scout and we were encouraged to learn how to use tools and practice with them on camp. Every patrol had a freshly sharpened felling axe and hand axe as part of it's basic kit on summer camp.

The world is mad.

Bill

 

[Womble]

I've been told that both standard SAKs and Sheaf knives are not acceptable knives for Scouts personal kit, and that if they must have a knife, it should be of the locking variety. I've also heard it whispered that the central people want to get rid of these as well. Knives and axes would still be available, but held by the Troop, not personally.

Now I'm of the view that keeping a knife in a sharp and good condition (and knowing the reasons why it's important) is a fundamental point of personel development for scouts; as it teaches them respect for their tools, a certain amount of patience and the satisfaction of a job well done.

 

[jamesdevine]

Yep this is going of thread alot but it is very much the case. We use them with our Venture they have to buy themselves and they are not used on scout campsites or around other scouts. I would be of the same opinion as Womble. It is a sorry situation but a sign of our mothering times.

James

 

[Gary]

To get back on thread - james you bad boy! - a club, that is one of the reasons Tony in his wisedom started the meet ups idea rolling and again it is also, I believe, Paganwolf's idea behind the club he is forming.

Both great ideas and both inspired by the wish to share knowledge for the greater good.

 

[jamesdevine]

So Sorry I am now going over to the bad conor to reflect on my wrong doing. :sulkoff: or not

I club or fellowship does seem the best way to go IMO.

James

 

[boaty]

Thing is, we're only discussing this issue because we're not learning these skills from anyone in our extended family or community

I remember being taught to prune roses by my curmudgeonly grandfather - first being told what to prune, then being watched like a hawk while I chose myself, and finally (after several years!) I was let lose on my own. I don't think that graduating with a PhD felt better than the first time he handed me the secateurs and told me to get on with it!

Surely serving that sort of apprenticeship under a demanding (but not uncaring) taskmaster is the way to learn? It doesn't preclude individual study, rather it supplements and enhances what you've read or thought about.

And just what skills are being passed down to the younger generation :?:

 

[Womble]

Button pressing. Depressing isn't it?

 

[Hoodoo]

I helped start an edible plants club many years ago back in the late 70s and it was a great experience. We had over 100 members ranging in age from the teens to the 80s. The pool of wisdom was incredible. Unfortunately the club disbanded back in the late 80s as some of it's key members moved away from the area. But based on that experience, I can say that a club would be an excellent way to share the bushcraft experience.

 

[Moine]

I also believe grading is not as importing as the free flow of the knowledge itself hence the importants of places like BCUK.

Good point!

Besides, IMHO, grading would put in a very rigid frame to the meetings... If you say grade, you necessarely put yourself in a student vs. teacher framing, and that would limit the free flow of information greatly. "Students" are not as free to express new ideas or to share new stuff as "members" are.

The way I see that club is that we all share the stuff. Of course, the most advanced students will teach more and learn a little less, but even a newcomer should be allowed to propose new data to the group. That's how a group can learn collectively instead of barricading itself in idiocy.

Cheers,

David

 

[Ginja]

I agree...

In a different context, I've experienced various grading systems in martial arts (and have graded people myself). Yes, it can serve a purpose in that it can provide a valuable source of inspiration for some people - which can really help in a field like martial arts (or bushcraft, for that matter), where the skills you are learning are boundless and life-long, and require many years of diligent practice to become even remotely instinctive, or 'natural'. Hence, when faced with something in which one will ALWAYS remain a student, it's sometimes easier to break it down into bite-sized chunks (or grades), that give a sense of accomplishment along the way. So as a motivational force, grading systems do have their merits.

But ...

I would also argue that the kind of people who are hungry for grades, belts, badges, trophies, etc, are also the kind of people least likely to stick at martial arts/bushcraft in the long-run - simply because they're driven by winning 'things', or collecting 'things', rather than simply gaining knowledge and expertise. Hence, when they become top of their game, or reach black belt, or become a 'master bushcrafter' ... what's next? Do another black belt? (that's what I did!). What I'm saying is the horizon dries up, you get bored because you don't feel as though you're being challenged anymore, and slowly you lose interest. And the shame is, it's all because the grading system has made you lose sight of your original reason for starting out in the first place.

Hmmm ... time to wind this up!

One more thing though - the biggest downside of a grading system, in my mind, is that at the end of the day, it's really doesn't mean much. Certainly in the world of martial arts, I've seen black belts beaten black and blue by total novices; and on the flip side, I've seen novices beaten up by shaky instructors out to prove their superiority - it's the whole "my grade says I'm better than you" side of things that's a proven recipe for friction!

And the only friction we want here is that which makes fire, eh?

Shaolin monks wear simple cord belts for the purpose of keeping their pants up. Not sure if that sums all this up; but it does the job for me!

G

 

[Gary]

I wear braces, but very good points there Ginja.

 

[boaty]

I totally agree on the grading, but people like to have something to show their progress - the scouts' system of badges springs to mind as a good example, particularly the way that you can't go for some badges before earning a set of pre-requisite badges

I reckon we could come up with a set of skills and pre-requisites with a bit of thought